Yeah, I'm tetchy today; random Italian visitor detained 10 days

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

No doubt we as a country have some big issues, but to say we are barbarians because of a few incidents is a bit much.

Nah, I go for the barbarian theory. We have a few in the family.

[Trek]

There are barbarians amongst all nations. Some tend to have more than others though.

[FinanceDude]

I think a LOT of things changed after 9/11............airports are the biggest zoo they have ever been, TSA thinks they are like the Secret Service, etc.

I am flying next week wearing my Aircast, I am sure TSA will make me take it off to make sure I'm not hiding any boxcutters in it...........

ladelfina, the reason I take issue with you is some of your past posts. You criticize the USA at every turn, when the REAL issue you have is with INS. Ripping on the USA while you live in Italy rings hollow with time. It's about refreshing as daily "updates" from Wags and newguy88............

[ladelfina]

FD, sorry I am not 'the pause that refreshes' you. I try to stick to things that personally affect me, US citizen retired abroad. I don't believe I've posted egregious political screeds ("Bush quits golfing" / "Fossella 'feeling good'" / "violence increases in Baghdad"). In fact, I don't recall originating any purely political post (but I could be wrong). I'm not a big thread originator.*

I also don't believe to have used words like 'barbarian' or 'fascist' or other inflammatory terms.. but I get the idea people are over-reacting and painting me with that kind of brush. I don't hide my kinda-libertarian/kinda-progressive politics, but I didn't know that was a disqualifying characteristic.

Thanks to some of the later posters on this thread, who acknowledge where I am coming from.. they seem to be from both left and right persuasions. I don't mind at all if people disagree with me. I am troubled by getting aggressive juvenile responses (even from supposed moderators) that don't address or engage the topic, and by being tagged a 'lunatic'. I feel like I've been just recently singled out for this whether the post is political or economic. Either I AM a lunatic (which possibility I don't deny) or I have touched some nerve.

Though I live in Italy (maybe that is some source of resentment?) my (relatively modest) financial life is in the US, and I need to plan accordingly. I need to be just as politically and economically aware as any of you -perhaps even more so- and I would have made most of my same posts were I living in Kansas. Maybe you think being critical is unhelpful but, respectfully, I believe being uncritical is unhelpful.

Having a pov from outside of, or on the margins of, 'the system', one does get a different view of the US. I'm not immune to my Panglossian upbringing that Americans live in 'the best of all possible worlds'. To a huge extent that is still quite true! But it's dismaying to read of xenophobic/'not invented here' attitudes that do not serve to strengthen our country. My own sister writes me about Obama's "muslim nature".. I read about how horrible it would be to live as they do in (gasp) France! When I was in the US, these things seemed mildly humorous; from here, they seem, indeed, "lunatic".

My criticism stems precisely from BEING an American, and wanting to defend American principles that I believe in. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. I certainly don't waste time going to Italian boards and trashing Italy and Italian economics/politics; maybe I would if I voted in Italy.

--
sam, urgh.. I would NOT want to have to go through Saudi customs! I've read in many places, though, positive comments about Israeli airports, where they have a much higher immediate level of threat than in the US, yet manage to process people better (by all reports, again this is not from personal experience).
--

* out of 72 threads I started, maybe 3-4 could be called 'political', and the most recent of those (barring this one) from about a year ago. Anyone so deeply interested in my modest contributions for better or worse -to the extent of getting upset over it- has only to use the search feature.

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by samclem

But, if you want to know how bad it can get, go through Saudi customs. Not a hint of professionalism or courtesy, just one insulting, degrading experience after another.

Yes. But according to the reporting, Mr. Salerno had been “on frequent visits to Alexandria, Va., where he was welcomed like a favorite son by the parents and neighbors of his girlfriend, Caitlin Cooper.” So if you really want to know how bad it can get, going through Saudi customs is not sufficient - you must go on frequent visits to Saudi Arabia visiting with your Saudi girlfriend; “welcomed like a favorite son” by parents and neighbors!

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

FD, sorry I am not 'the pause that refreshes' you. I try to stick to things that personally affect me, US citizen retired abroad. I don't believe I've posted egregious political screeds ("Bush quits golfing" / "Fossella 'feeling good'" / "violence increases in Baghdad"). In fact, I don't recall originating any purely political post (but I could be wrong). I'm not a big thread originator.*

All I am saying is you paint a broad brush stroke of negativity about the USA. You obviously has issues with your husband's attempt at citizenship, and are bitter about it (understandably). But, you should not take issue because some of us love their country, faults and all.

If the USA is so terrible, why do we have an immigration problem? Maybe all those folks got lied to about the "land of freedom and opportunity"................

[Texas Proud]

Ladelfina....

Like I said on another forum... don't get upset by what others say... I do at times.. but it is usually short lived...

And we are not perfect... but it can be worse at other locations... Heck, when I was living in the UK I was talking to some people about 'rights'... they said that if you do not bring something up when the police are questioning you... then you can not bring it up in trial for your defense even if true!!

And I can say that I think that Bush has done a lot of harm to our rights with the wiretap and all... but again... we have a system in place to 'fix' our mistakes... sometimes it takes a few years... but they are fixed..

It would be interesting to hear why your husband was refused entrance? That usually means some kind of 'sickness' or criminal record... I have not heard of any other reason for refusal... but I am sure there are some...

[ladelfina]

TexasProud, -this is very important- he was not refused entrance.. every thing was going fine except that we just finally left the States after waiting more than three years after having applied to turn the provisory green card (which he had, and we were living in the US) into a permanent green card. We applied in 2000. To me, once you turn in the paperwork it should take maybe three months, not three+ years. His final interview for approval for perm. status reached us several months after we had already left the country and had returned to Italy in late 2003. (It was marked 'do not forward' but got forwarded anyway, and I still have that interview request letter). I think if it had arrived while we were living in the US, we would have had more reason to stay. It was not a question of rejection; his paperwork was all in order after much effort collecting and a lot of material expense. The bureaucracy is just not up to doing its job. I don't have any issue with "the US" in what its baseline requirements are, but we have just given too much arbitrary and non-transparent non-recourse power to petty officials and bureaucrats... just the things we complain other countries do.

DH was walking around with an expired green card AND and letter that extended the expired green card for another year - the letter itself expired as well! Try validating your existence by showing not one, but two, IDs that are 1 and 2 years out of date. He just felt like a non-person. At least he had his state drivers' license that lasted the duration! What are you going to say to a prospective employer? "Yeah, well I have been waiting years for permanent status, but look, I have this expired letter?" An Italian friend of his proposed a business partnership and we just decided he should try and make a go of that, in the end. It may be a worse business climate here, but at least he understands it.

I never made out that this was the ONLY reason; there was the tech crash, too, and other personal aspects. I only brought it up on the other thread to show how hard legal immigration can be even for well-off educated people who have an automatic (semi-)right to do so!!

Thanks for your comprehension, TexasProud.

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

been a bit edgy today..

Italian’s Detention Illustrates Dangers Foreign Visitors Face
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/us/14visa.html

I have just about had it with the US. I no longer care who says I'm nuts.

Ask ANYONE whether they really thought a few years back that things like this could happen in the USA, and they would have said you were crazy.

Please note dear readers before you make your judgements that you are pretty much only getting one side of the story in this article.

Immigration Officers (including supervisors) are precluded from making comment to the press & all inquiries must be filtered (for various valid reasons) through several layers of management & government lawyers before a Public Information Officer is allowed to give a vetted & watered down response.

[FinanceDude]

[quote=Texas Proud;657673]
And I can say that I think that Bush has done a lot of harm to our rights with the wiretap and all... but again... we have a system in place to 'fix' our mistakes... sometimes it takes a few years... but they are fixed../quote]

All I can say to that comment is that 9/11 changed everything.............