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Old 11-14-2011, 11:38 AM   #21
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Now if we could get the OWS movement to focus its efforts on these crooks, it might be productive.
There's lots of "concern" out there; i.e. "Occupy", Tea Party, etc. But it's hard to even figure out what these groups "stand for". All over the map...
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:09 PM   #22
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I read about the piece before I saw it last night. Just makes my blood boil and wonder why there isn't an Occupy Congress Movement, requiring all congress members to have to live with the legislation they pass for others, social security, medicare, etc. not to mention not being able to work as a lobbyist after their terms. When people speak of other governments being corrupt, kind of rings hollow in respect to our own corrupted system. Throw all the bums out this election cycle.
When people speak of the other governments, they are talking about being more corrupt than ours. But I didn't know about our own law makers were lining their pockets rather than looking out for the people they served.

I agreed with you. If congress members to have to live with the legislation they pass for others, social security, medicare, etc, I guarantee you that everything is much easier to understand without having majored in English with law degree. Congress members themselves don't write, it's few assistance with law and english degrees write for them. Just think about how simple would Medicare be if they have to use it like rest of us?

I also agree that they should be banned working as lobbyist involvement either directly or indirectly for period of 12 years. By time they get back to Washington, they would has been and won't have much influence as they would soon after they had to leave either by not being re-elected or some other reason.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:17 PM   #23
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Another interesting tidbit I thought I heard (would probably have to see the segment again to make sure) was the piece about political intelligence groups searching through the hearings for info that could influence stock prices and selling it to hedge funds. Maybe someone recalls hearing the same thing?
Yes, they said that. I read both text and saw the video.

I'm still mad as hell while I'm working and working to save for ER, those people who were elected to protect the people by the people was only out there to lookout for their own financial gains. I do believe it's time to break away from two party system since they are both same. We need someone like Ross Perot back but be more in the middle to take away both GOP and DEM vote that would lead us in having non-GOP or DEM president and congress. By the people of the people.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:29 PM   #24
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There's lots of "concern" out there; i.e. "Occupy", Tea Party, etc. But it's hard to even figure out what these groups "stand for". All over the map...
My take would be this: The Tea Party seems to be against Big Government, OWS seems to be against Big Corporations, and the problem is that we have Big Government inextricably in bed with Big Corporations.

IMO, government isn't working for us because it is often bought and paid for by deep-pocketed lobbying groups including major corporations. Thus when faced with doing the people's business or the business of the million-dollar campaign contributor, the choice for them is sadly too easy.

Similarly, Corporate America isn't working for us because they are buying the government to create a climate that favors them (sometimes at the expense of labor, customers and small business competitors). They can use influence to ease regulatory frameworks, water down anti-trust and anti-monopoly enforcement, and encourage granting tax breaks to businesses who ship jobs overseas.

In a vacuum, neither government nor Big Business are "the enemy." Both serve important roles in society and the economy and neither should be vilified in and of themselves. But when they are allowed to become more and more of a single combined entity, I think all bets are off. We have a de facto "separation" of government and religion because they work best when protected against the influences of each other. I'd contend the same is true of "corporation and state" to a significant degree.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:30 PM   #25
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There's lots of "concern" out there; i.e. "Occupy", Tea Party, etc. But it's hard to even figure out what these groups "stand for". All over the map...
Thats true, its hard to know what their real agenda is. I have no gripes with anyone that wants to work and can't get a job, but I don't have much sympathy for those that simply want a free lunch and want to take it from those that earned it. Some how I think this OWS movement is more the later.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:57 PM   #26
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Pelosi's response was priceless. Boehner was peeved but his eyes weren't shooting death rays at the person asking the question. Reminds me of the old saying, "If looks could kill..."
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:07 PM   #27
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Pelosi's response was priceless. Boehner was peeved but his eyes weren't shooting death rays at the person asking the question. Reminds me of the old saying, "If looks could kill..."
That was priceless. I just wish the media would stay on this story with the same vigor as the Caine harrassment issue.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:48 PM   #28
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True, true, true

In a vacuum, neither government nor Big Business are "the enemy." Both serve important roles in society and the economy and neither should be vilified in and of themselves. But when they are allowed to become more and more of a single combined entity, I think all bets are off. We have a de facto "separation" of government and religion because they work best when protected against the influences of each other. I'd contend the same is true of "corporation and state" to a significant degree. _

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Old 11-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #29
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That was priceless. I just wish the media would stay on this story with the same vigor as the Caine harrassment issue.
But it won't happen IMO. American public has been dumb down and Cain's past sexual harassment is more of interesting than simplifying Medicare choices or overhauling our Congress. They only can care about what government crumbs that will throwing at them than to work harder to achieve their own finances. It's shame but I feel so powerless to do anything to change.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:59 PM   #30
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I read about the piece before I saw it last night. Just makes my blood boil and wonder why there isn't an Occupy Congress Movement, requiring all congress members to have to live with the legislation they pass for others, social security, medicare, etc. not to mention not being able to work as a lobbyist after their terms. When people speak of other governments being corrupt, kind of rings hollow in respect to our own corrupted system. Throw all the bums out this election cycle.
What's the point? The current bums will just be replaced by new bums.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:59 PM   #31
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I would consider any Congressman that did not joint on the now retired Congressman's bill to change all this...suspect.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:33 PM   #32
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I saw the show.

To quote one of my favorite radio talk show hosts, Bob Brinker, host of "Money Talk"

"We have the best government that money can buy."
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:31 PM   #33
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I'm glad I looked before posting as I was going to start a thread on this topic. I missed the 60 minutes episode, but I heard coworkers talking about it and read the transcript. This kind of thing makes me want to throw my hands up and walk away.

How do we force a change?
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:30 AM   #34
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This kind of thing makes me want to throw my hands up and walk away.

How do we force a change?
I am not enough an historian to know for certain, but offhand I cannot think of any society that managed to reform itself once it had achieved the level of graft and government rot and financial exposure that we have achieved. Eventually the weakness told. The US may have the domestic control apparatus and military strength to avoid successful challenges for a long time, but eventually we will be so weak in various ways that a good shove from without is likely to take us down.

Ha
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:04 AM   #35
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For all of the criticism the media gets... it has been the great equalizer in our society.

Freedom of the press and expression are powerful! Be it a liberal or conservative voice and regardless of their underlying motivation (but often it is career oriented on a personal level). Exposing these situations is a very important first step.

BTW - I am not referring to the propaganda and manipulation we are fed daily by all sides of the media.... and a few nut jobs out there!
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:00 AM   #36
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How do we force a change?
We need a term limit amendment to the Constitution, but in order to get that it may take surrounding the Capital with pitch forks and tar/feathers.

That said, as a start, it might help if more people wrote their congressmen and senators to demand change.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:51 AM   #37
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Did I also hear correctly that they can't take money, but it was OK to take IPO shares?
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Yes you did. And they do.

That is what they said.... but I doubt what you think is what is happening...

Like the Visa shares mentioned, they have to pay for them just like everybody else who is in the IPO... and IPOs have gone down in price... usually up, but not all of them....


Now, they did not say when she sold... IOW, did she pocket the quick gain or hang on to them....
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:08 AM   #38
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The rich and/or powerful will always have the upper hand. Maybe that's how it should be. Or maybe not...
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:33 PM   #39
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A little Clarification on the IPO "deals" --IPO's are offered at an intro price that is limited to the few special customers of the brokerage company bringing the IPO to the market...(there big accounts are offered first dibs) -the congress folk are among the select few who get that intro price before the market takes the price elsewhere--often up initially in any "hot" new IPO where there is major demand to get those special intro prices...and in having easier access to those early IPO prices =these congressional types have an advantage over the rest of us saps---
The story was infuriariting and it is up to us to pressure our congressmen and Senators to change the law. they wont do it without us pushing them.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #40
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The story was infuriariting and it is up to us to pressure our congressmen and Senators to change the law. they wont do it without us pushing them.
While we are at it, they should have to follow the same 'Do Not Call' list rules as everyone else. I'm sick of this 'the rules are for others' approach.


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