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Old 04-12-2011, 12:03 PM   #21
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But really, Why do people begrudge others that do really well and think that somehow the government is entitled to confiscate their wealth ? Or worse, to confiscate their wealth and redistribute it to those that the government feels deserve it more ?
I don't begrudge people doing well and don't think the government should confiscate wealth. That said, I basically agree with ziggy29's and Independent's comments. I do think that because of the structure of how it is set up the "market" isn't working effectively and it result with CEO's scratching each other's backs (through being on boards of various companies) and ending up with pay that is ridiculous in comparison to the value being given.

And, here's the thing. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. I am not an advocate of government regulation for this kind of thing and think that corporations should regulate it themselves. However, if the structure is such that it can't stop be the hogs who are so greedy at the expense ultimately of the people working for the companies and at the expense of the shareholders then ultimately regulation from the government will come. And it will come because of the hogs who refused to just be pigs.
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:07 PM   #22
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What many of you are complaining about is, in many ways, yesterdays news.

mutual funds and pension funds have begun to flex their voting rights/duties. Corporate governance is much more the game these days.

There still are problems, but not nearly so much as before.

Quote:
Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered
your metaphor is out of context here.
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:24 PM   #23
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Nope... not that concerned that much...


Now and again I will complain when I read about someone like Eisner at Disney who pulled in a billion over a couple of years... but I did read that the value of disney went up many many billions, so the shareholders also made out well...


You also have to wonder about the ones who get paid a lot while the company is going down the toilet... like Home Depot... but, since I did not have direct skin in the game (I am sure I did own a lot in MFs... but that is removed enough for me)... I don't care about them either...

In the scheme of things... executive pay is nickel and dimes in most companies... take a big bank executive... I remember reading about Goldman and Chase... both CEOs are in the $27mill to $50 mill range (IIRC)... but the companies are making billions... and have trillions of $$$s of assets... so even if you cut their pay in half it will not have much effect on the bottom line.... now, the big bonuses given to all the traders etc. who don't do a whole lot... well, that DOES matter as it is a few billion....
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:41 PM   #24
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If you feel you are underpaid, go test the market. Simple as that.
As a corollary, if you feel the CEO's are overpaid, don't invest in the company.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:03 PM   #25
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As a corollary, if you feel the CEO's are overpaid, don't invest in the company.
I forgot to add this to my list

5) It's a cartel. You can't buy stock in a US company that's not impacted by the CEO compensation spiral, so you can't just opt out. Even if you find a company with a board that is serious about only paying "market" comp, the market is distorted by the actions of other boards.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:07 PM   #26
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I don't begrudge them. They all made lots of sacrifices to get where they are. I don't begrudge friends/associates that are cardiologists, oncologists, techies, investment bankers, top tier lawyers etc all pulling in low-mid six figures now. If I put my mind to it, I could rise to the same level, but I'm not interested in the total package that comes with those jobs.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:17 PM   #27
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I don't begrudge them. They all made lots of sacrifices to get where they are. I don't begrudge friends/associates that are cardiologists, oncologists, techies, investment bankers, top tier lawyers etc all pulling in low-mid six figures now. If I put my mind to it, I could rise to the same level, but I'm not interested in the total package that comes with those jobs.

I don't think many people are worried about the 6 figure incomes.... heck, that is less than $1 mill... but the 8 or 9 figure incomes is what I think the OP was talking about...
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:42 PM   #28
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I don't think many people are worried about the 6 figure incomes.... heck, that is less than $1 mill... but the 8 or 9 figure incomes is what I think the OP was talking about...
These are people that are 30 and just barely out of school making 20-30+ times what a minimum wage earner makes. I'm sure plenty are outraged at the injustice of this, too. Probably not as many here, since plenty here are six figure earners.

I just don't think it is wrong for people to make a lot of money if they can.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:58 PM   #29
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I just don't think it is wrong for people to make a lot of money if they can.
I don't think anyone here has said it's "wrong" for people to make a lot of money if the labor market is working efficiently.
The "overpaid" part occurs only if this group is able to avoid normal market constraints.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:08 PM   #30
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I'm just bugged cause I'm not a CEO myself.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:12 PM   #31
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I don't think anyone here has said it's "wrong" for people to make a lot of money if the labor market is working efficiently.
The "overpaid" part occurs only if this group is able to avoid normal market constraints.
Maybe this is semantics, but I equated the OP's "bugged about CEO pay" question to equate to "do you think it is wrong for CEO's to make a lot of money". I say no, and I extend that statement to highly paid professionals that make a fraction of CEO pay (but many multiples of minimum wage).
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:46 PM   #32
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5) It's a cartel. You can't buy stock in a US company that's not impacted by the CEO compensation spiral, so you can't just opt out. Even if you find a company with a board that is serious about only paying "market" comp, the market is distorted by the actions of other boards.
Good point. And unless you take a direct ownership stake in a privately held company, you can't easily invest in a long term-oriented business more interested in thriving in the next decade instead of one obsessed with the necxt quarterly earnings reports where a "hit the numbers at all costs" mentality can result in making a lot of long-term suboptimal business decisions to appease Wall Street here and now.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:54 PM   #33
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I'm just bugged cause I'm not a CEO myself.
Assuming you're retired, you have a higher position. You don't report to anybody ...
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:43 PM   #34
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I am lucky--I HAVE a job with a decent middle-class salary. System-wide, we have had no raise in three years. It really bugged me to read that CEO pay rose 12% last year. Anyone else?
I would never suggest what is too much for a CEO, but whenever there were no raises for the "common" employee wherever I worked, I always admired the bosses above us who would not accept a raise if their employees didn't get one. At least it made us all feel we were in this together.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:30 PM   #35
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Partially true, though many of these corporate BODs have a rather incestuous relationship with each other. Many of these executives sit on the boards of each other's businesses, and that creates the appearance of a "quid pro quo" ir mutual backscratching where each can rubber stamp each other's huge raises and bonuses (or worse, golden parachutes).
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:39 PM   #36
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I don't begrudge them one bit, but it seems there is no performance-based risk for many of these positions. Phenomenal pay for phenomenal results is fine with me. Perhaps the exceptions get the headlines, but I recall the golden handshakes for failed CEO's and double digit bonuses for execs who ran the entire economy to the brink and then got bailed out, so the system looks broke to me. It bothers me because thier compensation is not aligned with any long term benefit to stakeholders and that affects all of us.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:59 PM   #37
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Yes, I am bugged about some CEO's pays (not all of them, just some). Not as an employee, but as a share holder. I just wish there were a way to mobilize stock holders to fire their ass. Their cohort board of directors too!

And even when we are not a share holder, we can still be affected by the gummint's bail out as previous posters have noted.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:32 PM   #38
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It used to bother me, but as I am semi retired now I tend to think of other things.
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Old 04-17-2011, 03:36 PM   #39
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I was always bothered about excessive executive pay and perks when the CEO and board of directory were retaining all earnings and not sharing dividends with the shareholders.

My belief is a company should return profits unless the CEO has a better use for that money to achieve even greater profitability.

Buying a money losing sports team, or padding the CEO salary just never seemed fair or just to me especially when annual performance bonuses were already measured in the millions or tens of millions.
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Old 04-17-2011, 03:52 PM   #40
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The way I see it, we are all the CEOs of our own lives. William Bridges used this concept in a book years ago:

Amazon.com: Creating You & Co.: Learn To Think Like The CEO Of Your Own Career (9780738200323): William Bridges: Books

Presuming we are endowed with a modicum of intelligence and physical ability, and are willing to work hard, all of us who are fortunate to live in a free market economy have the ability to achieve financial success. Only a few will achieve results above the 95th percentile, and in general, those people go the extra mile, working hard enough to compromize their family life, and take risks. I say "more power to them!"
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