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Old 08-12-2011, 10:24 PM   #21
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Welcome Stella_Barbone;

I agree with much of what you posted, and like you and your husband benefited from Public Education in both Canada and the US (as well as Canadian health care)

Here's the rub:

Quote:
We simply believe that our country will be a stronger, healthier, more productive and globally competitive country if we pay adequate taxes to support good infrastructure, good education, and good healthcare as well as all the other things that good government provides
It would be much easier to part with those tax dollars if we could see the "good" part.

DD
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Stella_Barbone View Post
We actually believe that we should pay a higher tax rate than we currently do.
Welcome Stella. I don't think that the government will have a problem if you'd like to send some extra money in each month.

IMHO the government is spending our money like they are drunk. I read today that over a Trillion dollars is missing and the government can't account for it. Please, send some extra money in because they can't seem to find the other money you already sent.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:32 PM   #23
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There is a pretty simple workable solution to the problem here. In order to have a better country with free health care etc. why don't we face the fact that retirement programs 401's etc are a huge tax give away to the wealthy. Any one who can afford to pile money into a retirement program simply has too much discretionary income. The Idea that any one in that income range should be allowed to put away money tax free when so many struggle every day to just make ends meet borders on obscenity and is absolutely unjust.

Since the money in those accounts was put away tax free it really does not belong to the individual. It is the property of the state until it has had all taxes payed on it. That being true why not just declare an economic emergency and force every one of those rich people to exchange what ever is in those retirement programs for the safest investment in the world, 30 year treasuries, at almost zero interest return. The value in the retirement programs would be enough to create a near utopian country.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:36 PM   #24
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I don't think that the government will have a problem if you'd like to send some extra money in each month.
The standard reply is "Well, that isn't gonna help unless everybody has to do it!"

But that doesn't seem to apply to the Red Cross, Heifer.org, Humane society, or other charities. If you personally think the money will help, then you give - regardless of whether your neighbor does or does not. Or anyone on your block for that matter. You do it because you believe in the cause, correct?

Why aren't taxes looked at the same way, especially when ~ half the voters ( and ~ half of those classified as 'rich') appear to have this outlook? That's probably a higher % than give to many mainstream charities.

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Old 08-12-2011, 11:42 PM   #25
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OK, time for some levity - here are some real 'class warriors':

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Old 08-12-2011, 11:56 PM   #26
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I am a flat-tax guy, to start with. That would remove all the class-war issues. It would also remove all kinds of special-interest loopholes--which is one of the reasons why it has zero chance of coming to pass.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:42 AM   #27
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Total taxes are pretty flat:

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Old 08-13-2011, 04:17 AM   #28
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Normally I lurk. I'll go post an in introduction next, but this is a topic that gets me all worked up....

ChadR:"But I read that the 2009 tax year 47% of all filers paid zero federal income tax and some of them even got credits back. "

.
Terrific first post. I don't agree with all of it but much of it. Welcome to the forums.
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:48 AM   #29
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hello Stella - I posted a few months ago on this website saying exactly the same as you did below : I would not mind paying more taxes as long as our society gets better, more accessible healthcare programs or quality education. Not many people agreed with me then...
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We actually believe that we should pay a higher tax rate than we currently do.
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:58 AM   #30
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I believe we will have to increase taxes and reduce spending. But I'd argue that our marginal rates are progressive enough, and we ALL need to pony up with higher rates at all levels. What I disagree with is the let's just tax the rich more, when they already pay more than their share, and especially those who don't even bother to look at the data. That's simple class warfare, as if "the rich" are rich for no other reason than dumb luck.

And the post that said 'I'd be willing to pay more for more/better services' has clearly not bothered to look at our revenues, spending and deficits. We won't come meaningfully closer to balanced budgets until the electorate accepts significant changes in Soc Sec, Medicare, defense and revenues/taxes (individual and Corp BOTH). There are undoubtedly reductions possible in non-discretionary/non-defense spending, but nowhere near enough there alone.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:33 AM   #31
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I think we should increase taxes, both at the state and federal level, until it becomes evident that this government intrusion is impeding growth, causing high unemployment, hurting savers, and causing further divide between rich and poor. How long do you think that will take? lol
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:39 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stella_Barbone View Post
Total taxes are pretty flat:
Stella, it would be nice if you provided a source/link for information posted here, such as this graph. Not sure if this came from Fox News, Move On dot Org or....?
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:44 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Total taxes are pretty flat:

What would fair rates look like in your view? Higher rates on higher income is progressive, as has been posted the top 10% of the population now pays almost 70% of FIT for the population, so I'm trying to understand how much more progressive tax rates should be from your POV.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:00 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevo View Post
There is a pretty simple workable solution to the problem here. In order to have a better country with free health care etc. why don't we face the fact that retirement programs 401's etc are a huge tax give away to the wealthy. Any one who can afford to pile money into a retirement program simply has too much discretionary income. The Idea that any one in that income range should be allowed to put away money tax free when so many struggle every day to just make ends meet borders on obscenity and is absolutely unjust.

Since the money in those accounts was put away tax free it really does not belong to the individual. It is the property of the state until it has had all taxes payed on it. That being true why not just declare an economic emergency and force every one of those rich people to exchange what ever is in those retirement programs for the safest investment in the world, 30 year treasuries, at almost zero interest return. The value in the retirement programs would be enough to create a near utopian country.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:10 AM   #35
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What would fair rates look like in your view? Higher rates on higher income is progressive, as has been posted the top 10% of the population now pays almost 70% of FIT for the population, so I'm trying to understand how much more progressive tax rates should be from your POV.
The percent of total taxes paid by income group has nothing to do with the progression of the tax curve. The chart posted by Stella Barbone (provenience unknown) shows a similar curve to the data I posted in post #5 (subsequently ignored even though there were requests for hard data) and this data coincides with what I have seen elsewhere. In effect, once incomes move above poverty the effective tax rates paid are almost flat, with very little progression at all.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:22 AM   #36
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The percent of total taxes paid by income group has nothing to do with the progression of the tax curve. The chart posted by Stella Barbone (provenience unknown) shows a similar curve to the data I posted in post #5 (subsequently ignored even though there were requests for hard data) and this data coincides with what I have seen elsewhere. In effect, once incomes move above poverty the effective tax rates paid are almost flat, with very little progression at all.
FWIW, the chart you posted is much closer to my own experience when I was working. I don't think our effective tax rate was ever above 21% for household incomes well above $200k, and we only took standard deductions. (no mortgage, no State income taxes, in tax years 2004 - 2008).
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:55 AM   #37
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Who are these people who point fingers and accuse others of being Class Warriors?

Everyone here should be aware that the Publisher of this fine tome, ALEC, is a political spinoff of the Billionaire Koch brothers. Virtually everything put out by ALEC and the Koch brothers is organized-spin.

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Old 08-13-2011, 08:57 AM   #38
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Everyone here should be aware that the Publisher of this fine tome...
Not sure which "tome" you are referring to. Can you be more specific?
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:03 AM   #39
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Not sure which "tome" you are referring to. Can you be more specific?
The original link provided by Midpack.
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:11 AM   #40
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Thanks Nemo2 - Yes I was referring to this publication from the OP... http://www.alec.org/AM/pdf/tax/11rsp...thEdition1.pdf

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