Call for boycott of VG

[donheff]

I'm moving my funds from a VG total market index to a Fidelity total market index. That will hit the gun makers where they live.

[dixonge]

While I think boycotts like this have little direct effect, they can have more of an impact in the long run. They are like a slow-burning negative PR campaign. I believe the fossil fuel divestment campaign is a good example of this. It certainly hasn't taken down any companies, but it has helped foster a negative sentiment toward them. Hundreds of funds have begun divestment.

These kids sure have a lot of PR folks hopping, trying to distance themselves from the NRA. Whether it results in lasting change remains to be seen.

[Mdlerth]

You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time.

(But you can't fool Mom.)

[Maenad]

I sympathize with his aims, but it is literally impossible to invest in a way that is completely "socially responsible" or "aligns with [insert values here]".

Find me a company that's led by a management team that isn't biased (or that is biased in a way that you approve of), that provides products or services that are an unmitigated good (good luck defining that), that doesn't produce excess waste (also good luck defining that), that treats all of its employees really well (ditto), and ensures their suppliers do too.

I won't hold my breath.

Companies are composed of people, and these people make anywhere from hundreds to millions of decisions every day. Some of them are going to be strongly disagreed with by a large number of people. I don't see any way around that.

That's not to say that cultural change can't happen. It does, but it needs to be grassroots. Convince people to stop buying guns, and then gun manufacturers are no longer big enough to be in the S&P 500, and they're off the index. But that's a lot harder than calling for a boycott, which feels like you're doing something, even when you're not.

He's a kid that went through something horrific, and he wants to change things so that can't happen to anyone else. This is laudable. Boycotting VG isn't going to do that.

[MRG]

I've been impressed with him however, IMO, this is over the top. Why? These organizations are pretty diverse. I looked to overweight firearms during the last administration and other then a couple companies there's not any pure play.

I really wanted to invest in 1911 manufacturing during the 2009-2011 run up to the 100 year anniversary. Those shops had a couple of year backlog, but they're all private companies, or 1911s were a tiny fraction of their business.

[gerntz]

I'm not surprised people would boycott me. VG are my initials.

[Bestwifeever]

I will always be on the side of youthful idealism--too soon we grow old and jaded. Vanguard had a nice imo response to this, taking Hogg and the school shootings seriously :

Quote:

In a statement to Yahoo Finance, a Vanguard spokesperson said the firm “shares many individuals’ concerns about public safety and firearm access and hopes that policymakers take appropriate action to protect Americans from gun violence. Schools, churches and public spaces should always be safe places for all individuals.” “Vanguard is taking action, meeting with the leaders of gun manufacturers and distributors. We want to know how they will mitigate the risks that their products pose and how they plan to help prevent such tragedies from happening again. We believe that boards and managements of gun manufacturers should disclose and reduce the risks associated with gun violence and the ongoing national debate on gun safety and control. We believe that when a business poses a risk to society, it can also pose a risk to investors. We are expressing this viewpoint directly with company leaders because we believe greater focus and transparency on these issues will ultimately benefit society and investors alike,” she added.

[Sunset]

Anyone wishing to support this boycott, can show their intense support and give me their shares for $0.00

Teach those terrible stock folks that profit is bad and evil.

This will really help (me at least)...

[Big_Hitter]

maybe he's an advocate for active management

[eytonxav]

These protests/boycotts against companies and advertisers, etc seem ludicrous to me and I am surprised at those that give in to these demands. What would happen if the other side of the story started protesting/boycotting?

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 These protests/boycotts against companies and advertisers, etc seem ludicrous to me and I am surprised at those that give in to these demands. What would happen if the other side of the story started protesting/boycotting?

You mean they don’t?

[Hermit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 These protests/boycotts against companies and advertisers, etc seem ludicrous to me and I am surprised at those that give in to these demands. What would happen if the other side of the story started protesting/boycotting?

My son-in-law no longer will do business with REI. They have stopped carrying Giro helmets and Camel Back water holders because the corporation that manufacturers them also has a subsidiary that manufactures guns. REI has never sold guns. SIL is an avid out enthusiast and also a gun enthusiast who did a lot of business with REI. REI's decision most likely reflects the top level management's political views. It would be interesting to see how their decision affects their bottom line, but we will probably never know.

[candrew]

In all honesty, DW & I at times feel conflicted when it comes to our values in comparison to some of the companies that are listed in the index funds we are invested in with FIDO. Neither one of us are savvy enough investors that we'd be confident in our ability to slice and dice a DIY portfolio and manage it successfully going forward. The expense fees and returns of the more "socially responsible" funds could end up undermining our retirements.

If shoving the entirety of our retirement $$ in traditional savings accounts, CD's, or, even better yet a mattress could sustain us, we'd do it.

[mystang52]

I'm curious how Mr. Hogg's parents have their money invested.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by candrew If shoving the entirety of our retirement $$ in traditional savings accounts, CD's, or, even better yet a mattress could sustain us, we'd do it.

But that money you put into savings accounts and CDs gets loaned out, often to businesses. How could you be sure that you aren't helping to fund a "bad" thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by candrew The expense fees and returns of the more "socially responsible" funds could end up undermining our retirements.

I agree. I think a "socially conscious" individual can do the most practical good by investing in low-cost index funds and using the returns to directly support the good causes in which they believe. Yes, you'll own stock in some companies you might not like, but somebody was going to own those stocks anyway (it might be me!), and by shunning them you do very little to "hurt" the company.
And boycotting Vanguard? There are >very< few companies that have done more to benefit average people than Vanguard.

[candrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem But that money you put into savings accounts and CDs gets loaned out, often to businesses. How could you be sure that you aren't helping to fund a "bad" thing? I agree. I think a "socially conscious" individual can do the most practical good by investing in low-cost index funds and using the returns to directly support the good causes in which they believe. Yes, you'll own stock in some companies you might not like, but somebody was going to own those stocks anyway (it might be me!), and by shunning them you do very little to "hurt" the company. And boycotting Vanguard? There are >very< few companies that have done more to benefit average people than Vanguard.

Very well said on both counts! On the first, you are correct, once that money is out of our hands, there is little certainty in where and with whom it is invested.

On the second; yes it is about that old adage of voting with one's wallet by supporting organizations and causes reflective of one's values.

[ownyourfuture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko Like people, causes get 15 minutes of fame and then "the next big event" comes to the forefront and your cause becomes yesterday's news. Then you need to do something to reset that 15 minute clock. Hence today's announcement.

Well stated. It would be best just to ignore him. But news is news & good news doesn't sell. It's happening right here @ ERF. Just to make this post, I had to 'sign off' on some ridiculous agreement to be extra careful because this is considered a HOT TOPIC!

LOL

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by candrew .................If shoving the entirety of our retirement $$ in traditional savings accounts, CD's, or, even better yet a mattress could sustain us, we'd do it.

traditional savings = funding warmongering government
CD's = dealing with oppressive banks
mattress = dealing with evil mattress companies (okay maybe they are good guys)

I am evaluating the "bury money in a can in the back yard" strategy. But I can't come up with a socially responsible can manufacturer. Apparently they use a can liner that some find objectionable.

[USGrant1962]

Looks to me like a marketing campaign for his new book: Parkland survivors David Hogg and Lauren Hogg to publish book #NeverAgain | EW.com

[candrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintnational I am evaluating the "bury money in a can in the back yard" strategy. But I can't come up with a socially responsible can manufacturer. Apparently they use a can liner that some find objectionable.

Maybe bury it an empty coffee can? A Fair Trade one, of course.