Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-10-2010, 04:09 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
That's not to say this kind of thing doesn't frequently happen elsewhere, or that the health care was substandard, or that it was substandard because it was government-run. That would require a lot more analysis and evidence.
Yes, it would. But don't let that stop you.
__________________

__________________
eridanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-10-2010, 05:23 PM   #42
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
The National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda is considered the flagship of Navy medicine and provides the highest quality of care. There's a reason that it provides services for the President of the United States, members of the President's cabinet, Congress, Senate, as well as all branches of the armed services.

Bad things can happen in surgery, even with the best surgeons and staff. There are no guarantees.
__________________

__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 05:38 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Well, yes, is there any doubt? It appears that the care he received at this government-run hospital did kill him. That's not to say this kind of thing doesn't frequently happen elsewhere, or that the health care was substandard, or that it was substandard because it was government-run. That would require a lot more analysis and evidence.
So if you don't know the answer, and if it's possibly all the same, why bring it up?

This is a technique I've noticed on certain "news" shows that is used to perpetuate falsehoods without actually taking responsibility for doing so. "I'm not saying xyz, but isn't it interesting . . . "
__________________
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 05:55 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,614
A lot of sensitivity and jumping to conclusions around here.

The OP was about a Canadian politician who was eligible for government health care but has elected to seek out private care at his own expense. Here we have a US politician who was eligible for government health care and elected to use it rather than seek out private care. Parallel situations, that's all.

After all, Senator Edward Kennedy, well known champion of public health care, elected to use private care for his own cancer treatment. And, he didn't survive his disease. So, all of these are just individual cases, not ones that can be used to draw conclusions about the relative quality of health care at either govt or private health care providers.

Edited to add: According to this site, which shows the results of studies covering 1208 laparoscopic gall bladder removals, there was one death among this group of 1208 operations and it was "not directly related to this procedure." Of course, each case is different, and Senator Murtha was 77 years old.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
The OP was about a Canadian politician who was eligible for government health care but has elected to seek out private care at his own expense. Here we have a US politician who was eligible for government health care and elected to use it rather than seek out private care. Parallel situations, that's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go View Post
"I'm not saying xyz, but isn't it interesting . . . "

__________________
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 08:29 PM   #46
Recycles dryer sheets
mark500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
He's doing something that reflects a common seemingly hypocritical phenomenon with lefties.

Universal health care is good for everyone else, but not me. Do you think anyone in Congress or the president will ever go to a nurse practitioner for care?
Same with private schools. Lefties send their kids to private schools while expressing their support for public schools.
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill
mark500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 09:11 AM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Two Harbors
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark500 View Post
He's doing something that reflects a common seemingly hypocritical phenomenon with lefties.

Universal health care is good for everyone else, but not me. Do you think anyone in Congress or the president will ever go to a nurse practitioner for care?
Same with private schools. Lefties send their kids to private schools while expressing their support for public schools.
A diversionary arguement that avoids the primary question...should all Americans...ie; the poor...be entitled to health care? That question has nothing to do with what someone of "means" chooses to do for their health care.

American health care is quite good...for those who can afford it. If you compare TOTAL population health care statistic we (US) are fairing quite poorly...no pun intended. It is those w/o health care insurance who would be provided for much better if they lived in Canada...or any other industrialized country. I am fine...I am sure Mark is fine...WE are not the issue...it is those who cannot afford health insurance coverage (an ever increasing number) who have the problem.

Mark...how do you propose to provide health care for the "poor"...make them wait until a crisis and show up at the emergency room as uninsured? That is how it is handled now.

Irony is that if we knew the cost of uninsured care within our emergency room and community hospital system...we could probably pay for basic health insurance for the amount already being very inefficeintly spent in emergency care.

Notice my lack of deragatory "terminology"...not sure what labels ad to the debate. TomCat
__________________
TomCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 10:07 AM   #48
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post
Notice my lack of deragatory "terminology"...not sure what labels ad to the debate. TomCat
Amen.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 12:38 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bikerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

American health care is quite good...for those who can afford it. If you compare TOTAL population health care statistic we (US) are fairing quite poorly...no pun intended. It is those w/o health care insurance who would be provided for much better if they lived in Canada...or any other industrialized country. I am fine...I am sure Mark is fine...WE are not the issue...it is those who cannot afford health insurance coverage (an ever increasing number) who have the problem.

.TomCat
I agree American health care is good and I like it that way. While expensive, its nice to be treated quickly when needed. I also agree that the poor here would be better off with a Canadian type HC plan. Hey, if someone else is paying your HC you should not mind waiting in line for some procedures. As for costs of HC how much is too much to pay? Should we force young healthy people to have HC insurance? I can't see how we can expect the insurance companies to treat preexisting conditions unless we require everyone to have insurance. These are the hard choices that have to be made but special interests on ALL sides are making it difficult if not impossible.
__________________
“I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said” Alan Greenspan
Bikerdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 12:50 PM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
but special interests on ALL sides are making it difficult if not impossible.

There ya go........

Push for single payer and folks with cheap (to them), deluxe insurance such as union members and gov't employees throw a hissy fit that they don't want to give it up. Push for changes to private insurance rules and regulations and the uninsured and their advocates and the poor scream that they need more than catastrophic coverage, they need first dollar coverage for routine care. Middle class worker bees want coverage that might allow them to stop working or stop working sooner. And on and on and on.........
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 02:26 AM   #51
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 886
Here's the full story from the man himself:

The Canadian Press: 'My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery
__________________

Trek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 12:53 AM   #52
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 619
Interesting...

Williams also said he paid for the treatment, but added he would seek any refunds he would be eligible for in Canada.
"If I'm entitled to any reimbursement from any Canadian health care system or any provincial health care system, then obviously I will apply for that as anybody else would," he said.
__________________
SarahW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:00 AM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Naples
Posts: 2,161
I forwarded this story about the Prime Minister to a Canadian friend of mine down here in Florida for the season. He emailed me back that it was the first he had heard about the story. Although he is out of country, he commumicates with his family and friends up in Canada via email and keeps up on the news up there on line. Strange he would not have heard the story, but maybe it's not being talked about up there.
__________________
JOHNNIE36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 02:21 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahW View Post
Interesting...

Williams also said he paid for the treatment, but added he would seek any refunds he would be eligible for in Canada.
"If I'm entitled to any reimbursement from any Canadian health care system or any provincial health care system, then obviously I will apply for that as anybody else would," he said.
If the procedure he had were not available in Canada, he would be entitled to reimbursement of the basic amount from his own province's health plan. But the fact is that the procedure is available in seven Canadian cities and the outcomes are as good as those in the US. Therefore his choice was a personal preference, not a need. I don't think he should get a cent back.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 02:25 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
I forwarded this story about the Prime Minister .....
Not the Prime Minister (Stephen Harper) but the Premier of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Danny Williams. (Mr. Williams has an ego the size of the country, so perhaps he thinks he is the Prime Minister!).
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 02:40 PM   #56
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
But the fact is that the procedure is available in seven Canadian cities.....
Can they do it in those cities without breaking bones? I gathered that was one of the main reasons he went to Florida is the less invasive technique so he would be back to work sooner.
__________________

Trek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 03:50 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
I just hope that he was charged enough that it was extremely profitable for the medical facility and the docs involved. That is, full retail, uninsured, non-negotiated price. And I hope the outcome was very favorable for him!
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 06:55 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek View Post
Can they do it in those cities without breaking bones?
Yes, but he didn't bother to ask:

Williams’s heart surgery choice was based on ignorance - The Globe and Mail

Perhaps, having a condo in Florida, he was predisposed towards a recovery in a warm climate?
__________________

__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AARP/Aetna Premier Health Insurance: A Rant tangomonster Health and Early Retirement 12 11-03-2008 06:12 PM
Surgery/body Work Khan Health and Early Retirement 43 05-29-2008 09:31 AM
TurboTax Basic vs. Turbo Tax Premier Geoffrey FIRE and Money 20 01-20-2008 01:15 AM
Poll: surgery or cast? wabmester Health and Early Retirement 32 01-13-2007 07:49 PM
Where my heart is... Brat Life after FIRE 0 09-19-2005 10:49 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:48 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.