Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-03-2010, 02:56 PM   #21
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Only problem is you must first have the right to reside in the UK before any of this will apply. I have had the right to live in the UK because my husband is a UK citizen. However, I couldn't just turn up and say let me in. I had to apply for the temporary visa in Australia. That visa lasted for 12 months, then I had to go to the Home Office to get a permanent visa to allow me to stay. However, getting these visas is not always a certainty. After I had been out of the UK I think it was for 12 months my visa lapsed so if we went back again I would have to restart the process. I think after residing there for 3 years straight I could have done citizenship.
DangerMouse, thank you. Really. Thanks.

Every answer to my question so far has avoided that "tiny" 1000 lb gorilla. The "how the heck do I get "legal residence" in order to even apply for citizenship".

As an early-retiree, my only option is to transfer about $2 million into some foreign country, live there "x" number of years, and then apply for citizenship AND "maybe" I can get citizenship. Or maybe not.

So has anyone become a foreign citizen or know of anyone who has? I can find on one and it seems odd because almost everyone I know has spent 10-15 years at least in Europe or are still there and yet I do not know even one who has obtained citizenship and I know many who have tired.
__________________

__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-03-2010, 03:00 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 864
IFFF, I were smart....it would have been MUCH easier to just have brought my UK wife into the US and THEN started the immigration process....I understand now why folks just jump the border. Doing it the correct way is seriously stupid and hard......well....stupidlier..... Yes, my staying in the UK would have been easier.... not financially better.....but easier.
__________________

__________________
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:01 PM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Well, France's first lady is a naturalized citizen as was president Sarkozy's father.

France has a retirement visa which allows retirees to legally reside in France. You can also try to get a job there and establish residency via employment. Or you can find yourself a nice French girl and marry her. So many possibilities...

FYI, in 2008 more than 137,000 people became naturalized French citizens (numbers published by the French Institute of Statistics).
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:10 PM   #24
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
Though no immigration law expert, I have done a little "lawyerin" for my BIL to help him get his fiancee (now wife) to the US from SE Asia, with the goal being to ultimately get her citizenship. Well she got here eventually, but it was certainly not easy. And she is still one conditional green card shy of having a right to stay in this country for the next two years. Every step of the process is fraught with peril - the kind that can have you denied entry or shipped back to your home country for the silliest of things.

The inches and inches of filed paper (probably feet when the whole process is said and done) are unbelievable, as are the often four figure filing fees. The process is expensive and time consuming. And anything but certain.

My guess as to what happened with Zero's acquaintances that came to the US on a tourist visa then stayed and ultimately got citizenship? Once your visa expires, you must leave. But you can petition to have your deportation stayed pending the outcome of some other visa petition/request. Maybe they overstayed their visa, got permission to stay while seeking another visa, then eventually obtained some form of immigrant visa and residency based on a family relationship.

But in general, entering on a tourist visa with the intent to stay permanently is immigration fraud and yes it will get you bounced out of the country quickly and for a long time if it is discovered at any step in the process. And many of the interviews USCIS conducts can be quite adversarial (think interrogation).
Thanks, glad to have the first-hand info and I find your experience to be exactly what my foreign employees have to said to me about France. They worked there for many years with a perfect, air-tight, permanent residence (titre de séjour) and yet when they applied for citizenship it was not only adversarial but pretty much certain that no American was gonna get citizenship in France. None of the 5-6 that I know very well, have achieved their goal of French citizen ship and all of them have children born in France (at least I think that's true).

So again, we know it can be done in the US but I have seen no evidence that it can be achieved in Europe.

Surely someone has done it.

PS: Just called my friend Ana in Sunnyvale. She is from El Salvador and she says she lived with her brother for a year, then he (IT person at Lockheed) got her a Green Card by getting his employer to say she was critical to some project that required Spanish/English translation (she's not sure if it was or not). So she was legal after that. So she did the paperwork and according to her it was pretty trivial, just lots of it. She said it did cost a lot for fees, and whatever.
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:12 PM   #25
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
So again, we know it can be done in the US but I have seen no evidence that it can be achieved in Europe.
You are right it is impossible.
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:16 PM   #26
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by F4mandolin View Post
IFFF, I were smart....it would have been MUCH easier to just have brought my UK wife into the US and THEN started the immigration process....I understand now why folks just jump the border. Doing it the correct way is seriously stupid and hard......well....stupidlier..... Yes, my staying in the UK would have been easier.... not financially better.....but easier.
F4, in a coded manner and sure you will understand. Drive down the "Hill" to SB-II and maybe get Colin to fix you a BaconMixer and then call the admin guy for NG, his name is B. La... and ask him for advice.

Make sense.
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:23 PM   #27
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
You are right it is impossible.
I don't recall saying it was impossible but if I did I misspoke, I was actually trying to say I cannot find anyone who has achieved the goal of a European citizenship.

And more specifically, a retire US citizen obtaining an Australian, UK or French citizenship.

Not looking for a political squabble, just looking for, "Yes, my brother got citizenship in the U.K. by doing...a)...b)...c) and it worked."
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:36 PM   #28
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 864
Zero, I think we have it.....this month some time...they are to contact us and I think the process will begin....again. We are heading back this summer to Spokane to check our house out.....hopefully they will offer the VERA this next Fall and I can quit and live a life of worthless idolness.....or whatever. It really shouldn't be such a big deal, but they sure don't make it easy. We talked to a few people down at SB....still seems to be a "mystical" experience to get this thing done. If I can't get my wife on my health insurance next November, I won't mind staying here.....UK is my kind of place, but I might move a little bit further south to get better weather.
__________________
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 03:58 PM   #29
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by F4mandolin View Post
Zero, I think we have it.....this month some time...they are to contact us and I think the process will begin....again. We are heading back this summer to Spokane to check our house out.....hopefully they will offer the VERA this next Fall and I can quit and live a life of worthless idolness.....or whatever. It really shouldn't be such a big deal, but they sure don't make it easy. We talked to a few people down at SB....still seems to be a "mystical" experience to get this thing done. If I can't get my wife on my health insurance next November, I won't mind staying here.....UK is my kind of place, but I might move a little bit further south to get better weather.
Wishing you a bunch of luck with the process. I'm heading to Spokane in about a week, anything interesting to do downtown area?

A really good contact down in SB is J. Burge, not sure how his ever worked out but his wife was Brit and they live in either Birstwith or Hampsthwaite and he would be like the expert on getting UK citizenship. He lived there 30+ years, helped install the place. And he got turned down flat for citizenship, so he is spending time here in CA and back there. But he would be great for knowing the process cause his wife got residency here in the US.

Seems a one way street to me. Might be wrong. Enjoy that clean N. Yorks air.
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:19 PM   #30
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
Every answer to my question so far has avoided that "tiny" 1000 lb gorilla. The "how the heck do I get "legal residence" in order to even apply for citizenship".
So has anyone become a foreign citizen or know of anyone who has? I can find on one and it seems odd because almost everyone I know has spent 10-15 years at least in Europe or are still there and yet I do not know even one who has obtained citizenship and I know many who have tired.
You might try posting this question over at Raddr's board or Bogleheads. They have a number of expats and foreign citizens, and Bogleheads is a much bigger group whose membership might include a fabled half-ton gorilla...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:28 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
I don't recall saying it was impossible but if I did I misspoke, I was actually trying to say I cannot find anyone who has achieved the goal of a European citizenship.

And more specifically, a retire US citizen obtaining an Australian, UK or French citizenship.

Not looking for a political squabble, just looking for, "Yes, my brother got citizenship in the U.K. by doing...a)...b)...c) and it worked."
Ok I am Australian so from what I know. It is possible to get a work visa for Australia that gives you a right to reside. However, to qualify think you normally have to be 45 and under. You go to Australia, get permanent residency and after 2 years you are eligible for citizenship. I doubt the retirement visa for Australia will lead to citizenship. Reason why is you would have a lot of older retirees heading that way to get citizenship so they can freeload off the national health system. Reason I call it freeloading is if you haven't been putting in from age 18 why should you have the right to turn up at age 55 and start taking from the system?

If you have children who are Australian citizens I believe you can sponsor siblings/parents. Only case I know of personally is a guy from HK, got his Australian citizenship tried to sponsor his parents but they were denied as the mother had diabetes and it was deemed she would be a drain on the system.

I think the first question you have to ask yourself is not where can you get citizenship, but where can you get long term residency that will lead to citizenship. Citizenship is really only obtainable once you have that residency.

Have to say it doesn't sound right from what I know of the British system that someone who had resided there for 30+ years and married to a Brit would get turned down for citizenship. Might be more to that than meets the eye. Same with your friend from El Salvador, what that company did would probably constitute immigration fraud and it surprises me that a megacorp would risk their reputation to do it.
__________________

I be a girl, he's a boy. Think I maybe FIRED since July 08. Mid 40s, no kidlets. Actually am totally clueless as to what is going on with DH.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:30 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,812
Actually forgot to ask, you have me curious as to what the intent would be of obtaining this elusive citizenship you ask about. Is there any particular reason?
__________________

I be a girl, he's a boy. Think I maybe FIRED since July 08. Mid 40s, no kidlets. Actually am totally clueless as to what is going on with DH.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:32 PM   #33
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
You might try posting this question over at Raddr's board or Bogleheads. They have a number of expats and foreign citizens, and Bogleheads is a much bigger group whose membership might include a fabled half-ton gorilla...
I first tried it on some expat boards and same results pretty much as here, there were tons of Brit expats, and Australian expats, living in a new country as citizens and actually quite a few American "permanent residents". But I could not find anyone with some "hook", like a French parent, or French wife or the like.

Seems going from retired US citizen to any European citizen is a rare item.

I'm not registered on those other boards so will try that later if all else fails.
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Actually forgot to ask, you have me curious as to what the intent would be of obtaining this elusive citizenship you ask about. Is there any particular reason?
For one, I love Melbourne, AU and would love to buy a condo in one of the amazing new highrise condos in the Southbank area. Love that city. Like being in World City. Mix of cultures is unmatched in my opinion. Bourke, Little Bourke, Collins, and all the wogs, and dogs and all blending into awesome harmony. I want to become a citizen of the world. I love to travel as a traveler not be a tourist. No giant balls of twine for me.

I would go there in a heartbeat if a citizen, but as a permanent resident you are always temp.

Same with France, I could want the city for all may days and be happy. But not as a tourist or temp.

-------------
As for you other post. The guy in England is still trying and the reasons he was turned down are not 100% known to be but I think it had to do with "how" he had been a permanent resident. Possibly that he was under a military agreement (SOFA) and so not matching the letter of the law as a person who blended into the UK culture, I'm guessing of course.

Oh and the lady from El Salvador did do work for the company so she was perfectly legal. I have no idea how far the naturalization folks look into things but she met their criteria.
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 05:34 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
Not intended to be political but posted here just in case. It's related to early retirement in that citizenship in a foreign country might allow permanent retirement there.
If you have Chinese ancestry you might be able to get a Chinese passport. Italy also has a program for foreigners with Italian ancestry. Other countries might have similar programs.

Smart parents are doing the following. There are services that will take care of all that a non USA citizen pregnant mother needs to have their child born on USA soil. - Fly in have the baby, gett a SS number, fly out. The child is then a USA citizen and could some day be president. If Arnold Swarzenger's parents were that smart he wouldn't be limited to only being the Governor of Cali.

So, getting a USA citizenship is rather easy.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 06:04 PM   #36
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
If you have Chinese ancestry you might be able to get a Chinese passport. Italy also has a program for foreigners with Italian ancestry. Other countries might have similar programs.

Smart parents are doing the following. There are services that will take care of all that a non USA citizen pregnant mother needs to have their child born on USA soil. - Fly in have the baby, gett a SS number, fly out. The child is then a USA citizen and could some day be president. If Arnold Swarzenger's parents were that smart he wouldn't be limited to only being the Governor of Cali.

So, getting a USA citizenship is rather easy.
Funny, but every place seems to have some "hook" like proving ancestry. In my case the ancestors were from Scotland, so zero luck there.

Is it possible for an American to fly to France to have a baby and it be a citizen?
__________________
Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 06:53 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
For one, I love Melbourne, AU and would love to buy a condo in one of the amazing new highrise condos in the Southbank area. Love that city. Like being in World City. Mix of cultures is unmatched in my opinion. Bourke, Little Bourke, Collins, and all the wogs, and dogs and all blending into awesome harmony. I want to become a citizen of the world. I love to travel as a traveler not be a tourist. No giant balls of twine for me.

I would go there in a heartbeat if a citizen, but as a permanent resident you are always temp.
The problem is the retirement visa is so new who knows what way the government will go with it. Also today's government may not be tomorrow's government. In bad times, any government and it's citizens like to put the blame for all the woes of the country onto the shoulders of immigrants.

Truthfully if that is the way you feel why not just go for it? If you get the visa it is valid for 4 years, most likely can be renewed and you may find that might be enough for you. Alternatively you likely will be able to renew as long as you have the required funds. I guess the biggest issue is having to stump up the funds up front.
__________________

I be a girl, he's a boy. Think I maybe FIRED since July 08. Mid 40s, no kidlets. Actually am totally clueless as to what is going on with DH.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 09:26 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
...I want to become a citizen of the world. I love to travel as a traveler not be a tourist. No giant balls of twine for me.

I would go there in a heartbeat if a citizen, but as a permanent resident you are always temp.

Same with France, I could want the city for all may days and be happy. But not as a tourist or temp.
But how can you have citizenship of ALL the above places? And once you have settled down in one place, will you be bored of it? Remember that wherever you go, the local residents also take vacation to go elsewhere.

About things to see in the US, I will admit that we have often neglected what we have here at home. I have read that Europeans and Asians travel here to enjoy rodeo and other Americana scenes as well as our nature. And to tell you the truth, we have never been to a rodeo. Who knows, the Europeans may wonder why we spent so much money and effort to go see their castles.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2010, 02:11 AM   #39
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 864
I had looked up the in's and out's of either staying here in the UK or heading to the US with my UK wife. As long as I was married to a UK person it was pretty simple and didn't seem like much of a problem. I don't think we should have much trouble getting my wife into the US, but this summer we will be traveling to London twice for a medical and an interview....if the paperwork works as planned. We have been told by a number of people that once in the US we REALLY need to get my wife citizenship as soon as possible.....legally makes things easier if I get run over on my bicycle of something and she has to take care of the financial matters. There is at least one guy here at school with a UK with that has dual citizenship now. It was easier when they did it 10 years or so ago.

Zero, not really an expert on Spokane...yet. Grew up in small town W Washington and didn't want to retire there. Had some property outside
Ellensburg for a while that I thought I might build on. I have a buddy in Spokane that we stay with when we are there and I kind of like the idea of being near a biggish city without actually being in it. So we bought a place about 10 miles out of town. I am more of a country lover than a city lover so it might take me quite a while to become an expert on Spokane.
__________________
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2010, 09:52 AM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
Thanks, glad to have the first-hand info and I find your experience to be exactly what my foreign employees have to said to me about France. They worked there for many years with a perfect, air-tight, permanent residence (titre de séjour) and yet when they applied for citizenship it was not only adversarial but pretty much certain that no American was gonna get citizenship in France. None of the 5-6 that I know very well, have achieved their goal of French citizen ship and all of them have children born in France (at least I think that's true).

So again, we know it can be done in the US but I have seen no evidence that it can be achieved in Europe.

Surely someone has done it.

PS: Just called my friend Ana in Sunnyvale. She is from El Salvador and she says she lived with her brother for a year, then he (IT person at Lockheed) got her a Green Card by getting his employer to say she was critical to some project that required Spanish/English translation (she's not sure if it was or not). So she was legal after that. So she did the paperwork and according to her it was pretty trivial, just lots of it. She said it did cost a lot for fees, and whatever.
I am convinced that in general it would be best to hire an immigration attorney to handle US-related immigration issues that involve bringing someone here from another country. I was helping my BIL before I got my law license, and there was a lot of wheel spinning. Once I got my law license, I was able to contact a double-super-secret "for attorneys only" email address at the US State Dept (yes, ridiculous but true) and I cut through the red tape like a hot knife through butter. It was as if they couldn't trust someone applying by themselves, but as soon as you have an official looking attorney, they get all trustworthy and they make sure they are following proper procedure and not jerking you around.

Within a week, the claim of fraud against BIL and fiancee was lifted and the foreign embassy reopened the case for continued consideration in-country. That saved BIL probably a year long wait to get another shot at a hearing here stateside, that MAY have led to a successful visa being granted (or a reaffirmation of the finding of fraud!).

Maybe if you are serious about pursuing an Australian or French citizenship, you should talk to an immigration attorney in one of those countries. If it is like the US, it will be a process that will take many years under even the best circumstances.

There are many ways to get a US green card (permanent resident card). Go to USCIS Home Page and click on "green card" to see how. Getting permanent residence is the key to being able to eventually apply for US citizenship. Employment, family relationship and refugee/asylum are the main ways, but there are a lot of other distinct special categories. This was new to me, but the US also has an "entrepreneur green card". A million bucks invested in a job creating business will get you in the door.
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proof of Permanent Residency or Citizenship for CC App flipstress FIRE and Money 10 08-19-2008 02:00 PM
Citizenship & Taxes Trek Other topics 3 12-23-2007 07:03 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:52 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.