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Class warfare and FIRE?
Old 12-18-2011, 10:05 AM   #1
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Class warfare and FIRE?

I see a greater conflict in the near future that will affect many here. Increasing jealously between those who prepare themselves financially, and those that do not. Those that do not will increasing seek a government solution to their lack of planning. We see that now but but it will increase as more Baby Boomers face retirement unprepared. That solution will of course involve more ways to take income and assets from those that planned and give them to those that did not. This is being talked about in a variety of ways, higher capital gains taxes, means testing Social Security based on your total assets, changing Roth rules etc. Really nothing to do with high earners, but rather targeting 'smart earners'.

Question is how do you think this trend will impact the FIRE concept? If one diligently saves and lives within his means with FIRE in mind, they will be targeted in the future by a Political figures in government looking to pacify panicked non-savers.
This adds much new uncertainty to the FIRE concept. Thoughts??

SM
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:14 PM   #2
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I don't believe we are being targeted per se. In order for the market forces to sort this out, it is necessary for all those in the world to share the pain. The pain will be felt greatest in the developed economies and those who are in the middle classes. The FIRE concept will remain, the means/locations available to achieve it may change.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:42 PM   #3
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We're in deep do-do. People who majored in stuff like underwater basket weaving, and society's deadbeats have too much influence over the course that this country has been following. Those responsible individuals who have been moderately successful in accumulating a few bucks to support themselves in retirement are increasingly likely to be victimized for doing the right thing. I worked for the CFO of a mid sized organization who advised me how he (and I should) relieve parents of assets so that the parents could enjoy more government provided benefits.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:59 PM   #4
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We're in deep do-do.
Yep, we're doomed.

To show you how bad things have gotten, I heard that every last child born in the US this year was naked! Even the rich ones!
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:01 PM   #5
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I agree with this.
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I don't believe we are being targeted per se.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:01 PM   #6
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Yep, we're doomed.

To show you how bad things have gotten, I heard that every last child born in the US this year was naked! Even the rich ones!
That's terrible! What is the government doing about this?





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Old 12-18-2011, 06:02 PM   #7
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Yep, we're doomed.

To show you how bad things have gotten, I heard that every last child born in the US this year was naked! Even the rich ones!
I just heard we're ALL naked under our clothes. But what can we do about it?
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:09 PM   #8
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I just recognize and accept that almost no one is paying the least bit of attention to my existence much less giving a care.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:10 PM   #9
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I just heard we're ALL naked under our clothes. But what can we do about it?
I don't know, but then I am one of those deadbeats who studied underwater basketweaving oceanography. Spare change?
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:05 PM   #10
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We're in deep do-do. ........ I worked for the CFO of a mid sized organization who advised me how he (and I should) relieve parents of assets so that the parents could enjoy more government provided benefits.
Now you know why we are in deep do-do.

The parent's assets should be used to support the parents until the assets are exhausted ... then and only then should the government support the parents. Why should the rest of us pay to support those who have means but transfer assets to their children to game the system? Luckily, the government is getting better at disallowing such scams.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:11 AM   #11
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I don't know, but then I am one of those deadbeats who studied underwater basketweaving oceanography. Spare change?
Underwater basket weaving - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:33 AM   #12
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I just recognize and accept that almost no one is paying the least bit of attention to my existence much less giving a care.
This as it pertains to the Occupiers. ERs need to be more concerned about losing to the greedy looking for fresh opportunities and bank accounts to drain.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:24 AM   #13
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The parent's assets should be used to support the parents until the assets are exhausted ... then and only then should the government support the parents.
+1
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:32 AM   #14
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Anyone who games the system for immoral gains sells a bit of their soul...I can understand people's anger at benefit fraud, what I can't understand is the blind eye people have for the larger frauds and immoral behaviour that occurs on Wall Street and with the money that influences politics. We have our priorities wrong.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:54 AM   #15
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I share Spencerm’s concerns. I feel like I have a target site on my back. “Sharing the pain” is too socialist for me. I am working hard to build my ER nest. AIG should have put thousands in jail and their assets garnished because of the fraud involved.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:58 AM   #16
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Now you know why we are in deep do-do.

The parent's assets should be used to support the parents until the assets are exhausted ... then and only then should the government support the parents. Why should the rest of us pay to support those who have means but transfer assets to their children to game the system? Luckily, the government is getting better at disallowing such scams.
Here in Pa, the common practice was to have Grandma sell her house to one of the children for $1, so she could then not have much in assets, and thereby qualify to go to a state-sponsored rest home for free, or at minimal cost. It was perfectly legal to do this, for a long time. Now the state has put some lookback rules into effect to curb this behavior.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:19 AM   #17
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Here in Pa, the common practice was to have Grandma sell her house to one of the children for $1, so she could then not have much in assets, and thereby qualify to go to a state-sponsored rest home for free, or at minimal cost. It was perfectly legal to do this, for a long time. Now the state has put some lookback rules into effect to curb this behavior.
I understand that it was common and legal, but it was still unethical IMHO and inconsistent with the reasons the program was established to provide state sponsored rest home care at an affordable cost to those who could not afford to pay.

The fact that the state modified the rules to prevent the behavior sort of proves that what was being done wasn't consistent with the intent of the program.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:21 AM   #18
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I just heard we're ALL naked under our clothes. But what can we do about it?
Do what I do. Wear pants.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:51 AM   #19
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“Sharing the pain” is too socialist for me.
I flip that around.....I feel that socialism shares the wealth around so that people don't feel the pain.... YMMV
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:41 AM   #20
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Anyone who games the system for immoral gains sells a bit of their soul...I can understand people's anger at benefit fraud, what I can't understand is the blind eye people have for the larger frauds and immoral behaviour that occurs on Wall Street and with the money that influences politics. We have our priorities wrong.

Why be so selective? We should fight fraud and immoral behavior wherever is occurs. I especialluy 'like' your wording 'the money that influences politics' - makes it sounds like the politicians are completely blameless, rather than willing/active participants. It's those big bad guys with the money, huh? What about those, who have taken an oath of office, who allow (encourage) themselves to be influenced by it?


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I flip that around.....I feel that socialism shares the wealth around so that people don't feel the pain.... YMMV
[sarcasm for effect] Yes, that is such a good idea, it should be applied to other areas in life. I know someone who suffered great pain because they got bad grades in High School and flunked out. At the same time, a bunch of other kids had more A's than they knew what to do with. We really should just give out Bs and Cs in High School, and the world would be a far better place![/sarcasm]

I'm curious if your salary at work is/was based on merit, or commission or anything like that. If so, do you live by your words, and share your merit raise with others who didn't get as much? I'm guessing "that is different" - this only applies to OPM?

And before I get the 'Ebeneezer' response, I believe in safety nets and I contribute to charities.

-ERD50
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