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Old 02-28-2009, 08:51 AM   #21
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So I guess your 401k was doing just great before Obama took office, huh?

Is your 401(k) worth more than it was on election day? FYI The S&P was about 27% higher then.

Market aren't about politics, just confidence about the future being better than the present. The market participants have spoken as to what they think of Obama's vision of our financial future is.
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:53 AM   #22
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So I guess your 401k was doing just great before Obama took office, huh?
I had a lot more money up until it became obvious Obama was going to win big and drag in lots of dems with him. That's when the sell off got in gear. Puny Paulson really started the slide by letting Lehman fail instead of brokering a $1 sale to someone. I can't help but think that was revenge for some old score.

Unfortunately, everything [moderator edit] and his administration (including the most vocal transition in history) has said demonstated that his administration will be decidedly anti-business, pro-union and tax happy. He's making a bad situation much worse.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:02 AM   #23
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I agree with Cramer (on this issue at least) There is nothing our president is doing that should inspire confidence in the market. He picked a treasury secretary that failed miserably at his job of supervising the banks under his watch. He supported the lamest attempt at a "stimulus" bill I've ever seen. Now when we need to inspire hard work and innovation among our financially most productive citizens he wants them to pay even more to support more social programs. Gosh, I just can't figure out what the market doesn't like.

While I'm not happy with what he's doing (disgusted actually) I am at least happy he's doing it before he comes up for re-election.

November 2010 elections are going to be a bloodbath for his minions in congress (you heard it here first)
What he said.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:11 AM   #24
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I am not a Cramer fan but he was right on the money when the housing bubble started bursting. Obama is not responsible for the mess, but his actions have done little to instill confidence in the markets. In fact the amount of government spending is sicking and to me focuses on the wrong things. I believe the current goverment interventions in the markets will prolong the pain and suffering.

tjg
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:17 AM   #25
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The good thing about still working is not being able to watch during the day and too tired and angry to even turn the set on after 12 hours of comute plus work every day.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:25 AM   #26
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I sure wish you'd post this stuff in the political forum since I have that firmly on IGNORE.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:34 AM   #27
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I sure wish you'd post this stuff in the political forum since I have that firmly on IGNORE.
I think the difference is that no one is saying my candidate is better than your candidate or slamming a candidate, or even Dems are better than Repubs.

This is in the vane of general POTUS criticism which is always always in season.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:36 AM   #28
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Let's get one thing straight: Cramer is NOT entertainment...

Using an analogy, I fear the economy is like an old clunker; if you take your foot off the gas, it might die, and you'll never get it started again.

I'm not sure I agree, but many of the smartest guys in the room think the prospect of deflation is so bad, they're willing to try anything to keep it from happening.

I also think that the US and China are about the only economies/countries with the ability to "reinflate", though that's also a questrionable assumption...

The numbers we're talking about here are mind bogglin'... Prez Obama had better have a sharp knife to cut enough fat out of the budget to reduce the deficit, let alone the debt.

But to discuss how this relates to FIRE: in my case, we can probably lose the E; I don't think it's going too be "early"...
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:05 AM   #29
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The good thing about still working
There's an oxymoron!
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:14 AM   #30
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There's an oxymoron!
Not if your economic survival depends on being able to hold onto your job...
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:28 AM   #31
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Is your 401(k) worth more than it was on election day? FYI The S&P was about 27% higher then.

Market aren't about politics, just confidence about the future being better than the present. The market participants have spoken as to what they think of Obama's vision of our financial future is.
This might hold if we assume the economic outlook consists of only one variable "Obama's vision" and ignore the 17% rise in the SPX the week leading up to Nov 4.
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:37 AM   #32
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Not if your economic survival depends on being able to hold onto your job...
Maybe for you Zig..... But for me, having to work in order to survive economically is not a good thing! Maybe a necessary thing, but not a good thing!
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:41 AM   #33
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The market participants have spoken as to what they think of Obama's vision of our financial future is.
Now there's a true statement! They may be right, they may be wrong, but market participants clearly are not optimistic about our future and are expressing that feeling with their dollars.
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:49 AM   #34
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Now there's a true statement! They may be right, they may be wrong, but market participants clearly are not optimistic about our future and are expressing that feeling with their dollars.
What about me, and probably lots of index funds, and pension plans, who are not daytraders, and are in the market for the long run? No knee-jerk market timing, just investing. Where else you going to go? Half-percent bonds?

I'm not sure the day-to-day gyrations of the market, at this particular point in time, are indicative of anything but the panic du jour...
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:51 AM   #35
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So I guess your 401k was doing just great before Obama took office, huh?
It was doing a whole lot better than it is now; thanks for asking!
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:55 AM   #36
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What about me, and probably lots of index funds, and pension plans, who are not daytraders, and are in the market for the long run? No knee-jerk market timing, just investing. Where else you going to go? Half-percent bonds?

I'm not sure the day-to-day gyrations of the market, at this particular point in time, is indicative of anything but the panic du jour...
I'm not talking about day-to-day gyrations, I'm talking about a downward trend that's been in place for some time now. Active participants in the marketplace are buying/selling ownership in American businesses for lower and lower prices. IMO, the net outcome of transactions over the past year+ expresses lack of optimism for the future.

Sellers may be wrong and perhaps today's buyers (who are btw optimistic about the future at least in relation to today's so-called bargain prices) may be rewarded. But I think the falling valuation of businesses is indicative of a net lack of optimism.

I share your pain. As a long term, buy and hold indexer this has been an extremely painful ride down that has changed our lives for the worse. And I'm not optimistic about the future of business as we've thought of it during my lifetime. I guess I'm part of the problem. I'm looking and listening and concluding NOT to invest further in businesses at this time.
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:03 AM   #37
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Let me be very clear on the economics of President Obama’s State of the Union speech and his budget.
He is declaring war on investors, entrepreneurs, small businesses, large corporations, and private-equity and venture-capital funds.
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:12 AM   #38
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I'm shocked that Larry Kudlow could say such a thing...
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:16 AM   #39
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I'm shocked that Larry Kudlow could say such a thing...
Actually, Larry has been very complimentary of BHO in the past. He was one of a handful of conservatives invited to meet with him before he took office and has been pretty supportive of he man.
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Old 02-28-2009, 11:24 AM   #40
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I'll be the first to admit that during the election campaign Obama was too liberal for my tastes, but recognizing that the economy was is bad shape, I thought/hoped that he would help restore confidence to the markets and provide some guidance and hope for the economy. While he has only been in office a short time, as someone said earlier, the buyers and sellers apparently see no reason for renewed confidence. President Obama is as far as I know a very honorable man, and I respect him as our president. Cramer gets on the last nerve I have, and I can't watch him so the only thing I know about what he said is what I've read here. All I know is that at 52 years old, I've seen a few recessions, and maybe it is because I'm older now but I can't imagine how to accomplish any retirement (early or otherwise) given the losses in the retirement accounts. The only reason I post this here is because I don't want to look like someone who jumps in once in a while to take a pot shot at another political party. To me, my concerns are valid and pressing, and right now I see nothing encouraging coming out of Washington. My hope is that I can revise this point of view shortly.
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