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Old 03-01-2009, 02:27 PM   #61
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Neither Bush or Obama spend money. While the Executive branch does the actual spending, Congress appropriates funds for programs. Congress passes the bills that sets up the spending. What Bush did wrong, IMO, is he did not veto those spending bills. And, Obama will not either. The seated President gets the blame, but it is your and my congressman that has loaded up the last bill with over 8,000 earmarks, i.e. PORK, and, it is people like us who blindly re-elect them.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:36 PM   #62
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You guys can politicize this all you want, it's not gonna help. The bill is due, the shop till ya drop charge it up the wazzu culture in Government, on Wall street, on Main street has come to an end. Both sides, Bush and Obama tried to stave off the inevitable, dealing with the fact that credit has dried up, we are tapped out, and to sustain as consume like a bunch of pigs economy can no longer be sustained.

We ate and drank too much collectively, and the waiter wants his money or he'll sell our souls to china.

jug
likes chinese food
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:48 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by OhSoClose View Post
I just don't follow this attack on Senator Biden and other Democrats for their supposed role in the mortgage crisis that lead to this ecomonic situation we are in. I have seen this claim about Democratic culpability
I didn't say they were all Democrats.
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:52 PM   #64
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....
Audrey

P.S. Obama is doing what he said he would do. The shock, outrage and despair seem a little silly. What were they expecting? Him NOT to do those things? Where is the surprise? Maybe they were hoping he would take a long time to get around to them.
I think you misunderstand. I think very, very few people are "shocked or surprised" - and if they are it *is* silly. But what he is doing is not instilling confidence in the markets that these plans will help the economy. That is the problem.

If the plans sounded good, I think you would see the market rise in anticipation of better times. That ain't happening and the reason is simple. His plans don't pass muster.

-ERD50
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:06 PM   #65
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The TARP saga continues. The bold is mine:

From the 2 March WSJ:
Quote:
The federal government is overhauling its $150 billion bailout of American International Group Inc. in a bid to bolster the battered insurer, but its plan will expose U.S. taxpayers to more financial risk.


The new deal, the government's fourth for AIG, represents a nearly complete reversal from the one first laid out in mid-September. Back then, federal officials acted as a demanding lender, forcing the insurer to pay a steep interest rate for what was expected to be a short-term loan. Now the government is relaxing loan terms by wiping out interest in hopes of preserving AIG's value over a longer period.
Yep, these guys in DC know exactly how to manage the bailout. Their well-thought out plan is unfolding just as they expected. Piece of cake. If we'll only give them more resources they can do the same bang-up job for all the other areas of our lives that we are apparently incapable of handling on our own.

Stop the madness. Liquidate the insolvent firms and allow the market to price the assets.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:11 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by jug View Post
You guys can politicize this all you want, it's not gonna help. The bill is due, the shop till ya drop charge it up the wazzu culture in Government, on Wall street, on Main street has come to an end. Both sides, Bush and Obama tried to stave off the inevitable, dealing with the fact that credit has dried up, we are tapped out, and to sustain as consume like a bunch of pigs economy can no longer be sustained.

We ate and drank too much collectively, and the waiter wants his money or he'll sell our souls to china.

jug
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But I had a hamburger while others had steak. I demand separate tickets!
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:18 PM   #67
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The TARP saga continues. The bold is mine:

From the 2 March WSJ:


Yep, these guys in DC know exactly how to manage the bailout. Their well-thought out plan is unfolding just as they expected. Piece of cake. If we'll only give them more resources they can do the same bang-up job for all the other areas of our lives that we are apparently incapable of handling on our own.

Stop the madness. Liquidate the insolvent firms and allow the market to price the assets.
AIG should be broken up, since the insurance part is quite viable. The financial/investment arm is what screwed it up.

DC is going to bankrupt us, better that they shore up the little folk affected by this wall street screw up, let the chips fall where they may, sort out the derivative insanity/bonds/tranches/dreck invented by the "geniuses" of Stanford, Harvard and Uni of Penn, where they produce egos in lieu of brains and leave us with smaller big banks that are healthy to go on. Screw the stock and bond holders of these institutions, we are not in the business of socializing their losses.

As for all the financial folk, giving all sorts of advice, perhaps they should take a hiatus as border patrol agents helping the Mexicans cross over to help do the work we don't want to do. To make the crossing easier, we can pave the Rio Bravo with out of work lawyers, don't want our new productive members of society to get wet feet you know..

Ole
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:38 PM   #68
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But I had a hamburger while others had steak. I demand separate tickets!
This sums up exactly what is so aggravating about this whole mess. I got called a sucker for years for doing the LBYM lifestyle while my neighbors partied the night away. Now they are crying it's not their fault and asking me to foot the bill. New trucks, trips to Vegas, champagne brunches, all of which we heard about in detail. Why is my name on this bill?

So now we are handed a ransom note being told if we don't pay up the irresponsible ones will take the whole system down with them. I'm getting close to wanting to call their bluff.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:43 PM   #69
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I think you misunderstand. I think very, very few people are "shocked or surprised" - and if they are it *is* silly. But what he is doing is not instilling confidence in the markets that these plans will help the economy. That is the problem.

If the plans sounded good, I think you would see the market rise in anticipation of better times. That ain't happening and the reason is simple. His plans don't pass muster.

-ERD50
So, you would like to have Bush back standing up there grinning and telling you what he thinks you want to hear? Face it, reality isn't too cheery right now and it didn't get that way in a month.

jr
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:46 PM   #70
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So, you would like to have Bush back standing up there grinning and telling you what he thinks you want to hear? Face it, reality isn't too cheery right now and it didn't get that way in a month.

jr
Lets not turn this into a political thread. Thanks.
We're talking about government policy here, that's all.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:50 PM   #71
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So, you would like to have Bush back standing up there grinning and telling you what he thinks you want to hear? Face it, reality isn't too cheery right now and it didn't get that way in a month.

jr
Reality is that our current leadership convinced us eloquently during the campaign that he was the man to lead us out of our current predicament. Now he seems, shall we say, a little more tentative. A classic case of massive over promising and under performing. The markets are tuned into the negative vibes.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:19 PM   #72
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Well it is probable we will have more bank problems this week with a continuing crash..Looking for a bright spot? We may soon see a dagger thrust into the heart of the Obama budget fiasco. Ah the sweet sound of gridlock..
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