Do you think Americans have lost their spirit?

[Meadbh]

A view from outside.....

This is indeed a very dispiriting time for the US. It seems that everything is going wrong. Yet, as many have pointed out, there have been other times of crisis and the US has always bounced back, has always been resilient.

Every complex system, be it a forest or a society, has periods of creative destruction (e.g. a forest fire) which allow for new beginnings. The problems of the US should not be underestimated, and they have scuppered many a leading society in history (e.g. ancient Greece) but I believe that the spirit of innovation is alive and well and that the US will rise and prosper again. I sure hope so, for the world's sake.

If you are interested in complex systems theory this would be an interesting read.

Getting to Maybe: How the World Is Changed: Amazon.ca: Frances Westley, Brenda Zimmerman, Michael Patton: Books

 

[HFWR]

Randumb thoughts...

I have my own political views, which do not easily mesh with any particular "party"; some libertarian, some RINO, some "progressive". I find it hard to think in absolutes, and believe that the world is not black and white, but rather an infinite variation of gray. We seem to have lost the ability to see nuance. This makes it difficult to find common ground; after all, who wants to compromise with Hitler...

My financial situation is good, though not great, but I haven't necessarily gone into "survival" mode, though some might argue that is my "normal" mode. I find it bemusing that folks who are in absolutely no danger financially are hunkering down because things are so "bad". Self-fulfilling prophecy?

Freedom is not free. It includes some sacrifice for the common good. But if it must be imposed from outside forces, then it doesn't serve its purpose. Just because no one is watching doesn't make it alright to act badly...

As for 9/11, like many, for me it was deeply troubling, but I fear we learned the wrong lessons. Sure, bad people are out to get us, but once again, no nuance. We dove into a couple of wars that we didn't really "want" to win, which cost us lots of blood, treasure, and good will...

And as it relates to 9/11, or the banking/housing crisis, where the hell were the statesmen/women, where was the leadership? If we entrust, and usually, handsomely renumerate, someone with the perks of being CEO, or President, or Senator, we should expect them to be the "cooler" heads during time of mania...

To close, as someone once said:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

 

[haha]

As for 9/11, like many, for me it was deeply troubling, but I fear we learned the wrong lessons.

Who is this we of whom you speak? Attacks came along as godsend to those in power who wanted to increase their power. And increase it they have.

Ha

 

[HFWR]

Who is this we of whom you speak? Attacks came along as godsend to those in power who wanted to increase their power. And increase it they have.

Ha

I have a mouse in my pocket...

 

[Amethyst]

I think there's a widespread sense that "we" are losing control and may have to change in ways we won't find comfortable. I think the country's population is older, and doesn't have a huge wave of ambitious young folks to propel it out of the doldrums the way it did in the 70's and 80's. We older folks can't only look to our kids - most of us didn't have nearly enough kids!

We have to look to immigration to keep the country vital and strong, and today's immigrants don't necessarily feel as if they need to "assimilate" as fast as possible, the way my mother's generation of immigrants did (I'm first generation American). They think American society needs to adapt to them. That's scary, and possibly depressing, if one is set in one's ways.

Amethyst

 

[Ally]

I feel a general frustration and negativity among my friends about the way the country is these days. However they are also the ones who generally keep up with the media/politics, etc. No matter if they are conservative or liberal, the ones who listen daily to the news media seem more this way than most. Unfortunately, this includes my husband. When I try to point out how fortunate we are in so many ways, he can point out how I'm living in a dream world and how the economy will soon come crashing down. Maybe I am living in a dream world, but I'm a mostly optimistic person and I feel pretty secure financially.

 

[clifp]

I'm normally pretty optimistic about the future, and as you all have pointed out things have been much worse in the past. That said I think it is easier to be optimistic since most of us are in good financial shape. Sure earning on our capital has been cut severely, but for the most part we are well established in our careers or even better retired.

For a ton of Americans who's spouse has a lost a job, or are underemployed, or unemployed, and lack the relatively small number of in demand skills (Health care, technology) I think it is a very scary time. Especially when you add in that for most American there number one asset their house has declined in by a 1/3 or more and in many cases wiped out all of their equity. There are sadly no easy answers to our economic woes, and even more sadly many of our representatives claim the other sides solutions are doomed to failure.

I couple of years ago it really struck me how brilliantly named the Great Depression was.

 

[GregLee]

No matter if they are conservative or liberal, the ones who listen daily to the news media seem more this way than most.

If they weren't frustrated and angry, they probably wouldn't be listening to the news so much.

 

[arebelspy]

If they weren't frustrated and angry, they probably wouldn't be listening to the news so much.

You may have the cause-effect relationship reversed, if it exists, but either way it does seem there is a correlation.

 

[M Paquette]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words.

When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of
elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of
restraint."
--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."

--- Attributed to Peter the Hermit

 

[haha]

We have to look to immigration to keep the country vital and strong, and today's immigrants don't necessarily feel as if they need to "assimilate" as fast as possible, the way my mother's generation of immigrants did (I'm first generation American). They think American society needs to adapt to them. That's scary, and possibly depressing, if one is set in one's ways.

Amethyst

It is scary even if one is not set in one's ways. All cutures are not necessarily equally valuable.

I would like us to go the way of Japan, perhaps plus some very high skilled and highly educated immgrants accepted. Enough of being the world's safety valve for it's overpopulation.

Ha

 

[JPatrick]

I would like us to go the way of Japan, perhaps plus some very high skilled and highly educated immgrants accepted. Enough of being the world's safety valve for it's overpopulation.

Ha

Run the country like an NFL team..You need a particular postion you go after it..Recruit!!

You have too much of another--you can't afford another..You close the door.

 

[target2019]

The following has equivalents in all belief systems. But this is Buddha's telling.

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.

There is interesting reading on the following wikipedia page:
Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My feeling is that each of us has given up some of the independent spirit and love of freedom our parents passed on. Perhaps we did this expecting more security. Unfortunately I see many preaching who want to lead, but not many can tell us what the elephant really looks like. Extremism has captured many hearts in this country. I hear leaders who preach failure at every opportunity, so that they can capture leadership in the near future. Reject them. Most great civilizations were destroyed from within.

 

[ziggy29]

I cling to hope that we haven't "lost" our spirit, our can-do attitude, our long-term optimism. I hope it is merely misplaced for the time being, to be found again eventually. A nation that feels defeated economically is likely to perpetuate that defeat with actions and inactions that help keep a bad economy bad.

 

[unclemick]

'God Looks After Drunkards, Fools, and The United States of America.'

In ER, every day I wake up above ground is an opportunity to party.

heh heh heh - I did train for thirty years in New Orleans. .

So ok who is the Shirley Temple of the 21st century?

 

[pb4uski]

I'm afraid to say that the overall feeling seems to me to be quite similar to the same time during the Carter administration - not hopelessness, but a general malaise.

 

[chinaco]

I'm afraid to say that the overall feeling seems to me to be quite similar to the same time during the Carter administration - not hopelessness, but a general malaise.

What I remember most about that time was political turmoil (hangover from the 60's) and the political fight for control.

The instructive part to that period (IMO) is the politics.

Most notably, after Nixon... the GOP was trying to recast itself.

For the economy, we struggled with high inflation several time in the 70's and had a couple of recessions.

Nixon Imposes Wage and Price Controls

Nixon tried to deal with high inflation using wage/price freezes. It did not work... eventually there was an economic contraction (recession) that brought them back down. He got hit with that oil embargo... energy prices did not help. I can remember price increases.

Part of Carter's undoing was a series of events... He inherited the Nixon/Ford recession and recovery. Inflation was on the rise when he took office. Of course, no President wants to kill a recovery... so he let the inflation ride early in his administration (IMO). Then there was another oil shock (which exacerbated inflation), Iran, a recession in 80 (not time to recover before the election).

http://www.nber.org/cycles.html

Of course, politicians (either party) try to paint a picture that makes them look favorable.

 

[obgyn65]

It is a very scary time even if you have a job and have great demand skills. I am scared of the present world we live in. There seems to be no end in sight for our economic troubles.

For a ton of Americans who's spouse has a lost a job, or are underemployed, or unemployed, and lack the relatively small number of in demand skills (Health care, technology) I think it is a very scary time.

 

[jayc]

Not me. I can't speak for anyone else. I try to only worry about my little corner of the world. When I think everything is in order for my sphere of influence I expand the sphere. I have goals, plans, and things to do.

Looking back over the years, 1968 was the scariest to date. Chicago Democratic convention, riots and cities burning, protests, wars, assassinations.

 

[REWahoo]

Looking back over the years, 1968 was the scariest to date. Chicago Democratic convention, riots and cities burning, protests, wars, assassinations.

+1

You forgot to mention the threat of nuclear annihilation.

In my little corner of the world, add a pending draft notice, a wedding (complete with an emergency appendectomy during our honeymoon), and yep, a very scary year!

 

[rescueme]

Looking back over the years, 1968 was the scariest to date. Chicago Democratic convention, riots and cities burning, protests, wars, assassinations.

From the view of my life, I agree with you...

 

[Midpack]

I would not want to be 21 today, but we've come back from worse and hopefully we'll do it again.

Wish we could get on with it instead of bickering and gridlock. Interesting, we blame our politicians and they may deserve some of the blame (special interests money), but the polarization reflects the polarization in the electorate these days - may be more than spirit? 'We get what we deserve...'

 

[ziggy29]

Looking back over the years, 1968 was the scariest to date. Chicago Democratic convention, riots and cities burning, protests, wars, assassinations.

Of course, that was also the year my better half was born.

 

[W2R]

Looking back over the years, 1968 was the scariest to date. Chicago Democratic convention, riots and cities burning, protests, wars, assassinations.

I wasn't a very good year, that's for sure.

I would not want to be 21 today, but we've come back from worse and hopefully we'll do it again.

I'd love to be 21 today, knowing what I now know. The job situation would be a tough nut to crack, but once that was accomplished life would be great.

Right now, a foreclosure up the street is for sale for around $150K on a Fannie Mae program that only requires 3% down, and closing costs up to 3.5% are paid. Plus, you are gifted up to $35,000 for any renovations you might want to do (though it is apparently in great shape and just needs updated decor). It's a great opportunity for an enterprising 21-year-old.

 

[haha]

Right now, the house up the street is for sale on a federal program that only requires 3% down ($4833 in this case) on a very low interest loan, and closing costs are paid. Plus, you are gifted up to $35,000 for any renovations you might want to do (though it is apparently in great shape and just needs updated decor). Great opportunity for an enterprising 21-year-old.

It certainly seems quite doable-but to me it seems too much like what Ben Graham called cigar butt investing.
New Orleans is a beautiful, charming, culturally, musically and gastronomically ultra- rich city. And compared to other places of even remotely similar appeal it is cheap. But is also a bowl in the path of hurricanes during a time when sea water is getting warmer. It is crime ridden, and I am not clear what it has economically beyond the port, government employment, tourism, medical centers and universities. (There may be a lot, I have not studied it at all closely.)

The last inundation must have taught the people that they are on their own, so if there is a next one IMO people may be even more unruly.

For a young talented person there must be better options.

Ha