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Old 07-16-2011, 12:39 PM   #21
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As long as the grasshoppers outnumber us ants there will be people who feel entitled to our money. It is not just SS and medicare. Look at some of the new programs to "help out" underwater homeowners and those who cannot afford their mortgage. One such program pays a portion of their mortgage and then forgives repayment. This will of course be funded with your taxes.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:44 PM   #22
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Nobody came back on my Malthusian comment. Maybe it won't happen in the population sense but the US economy is heading that way fast and we're all busy blaming everyone but ourselves, the right more than the left, but all are guilty.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:47 PM   #23
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As long as the grasshoppers outnumber us ants there will be people who feel entitled to our money. It is not just SS and medicare. Look at some of the new programs to "help out" underwater homeowners and those who cannot afford their mortgage. One such program pays a portion of their mortgage and then forgives repayment. This will of course be funded with your taxes.
I wish all those that begrudge paying tax would go off and set up their own "utopian society". Suggestions as to what that would look like are welcome.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:17 PM   #24
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I wish all those that begrudge paying tax would go off and set up their own "utopian society". Suggestions as to what that would look like are welcome.
Easter Island?

Seems to me I've been hearing similar discussions since I was a kid(maybe age 10?). The ones at the Barbershop were the most interesting.

heh heh heh - ER'd 1993 at 49. Took SS at 62 and spending the money letting my trad IRA ride til 70 1/2 - the opposite of what I've been advised. Then again I'm left handed and INTJ.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:20 PM   #25
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I wish all those that begrudge paying tax would go off and set up their own "utopian society". Suggestions as to what that would look like are welcome.
You had your chance in 1860. Blame Abraham Lincoln.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:26 PM   #26
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I wish all those that begrudge paying tax would go off and set up their own "utopian society". Suggestions as to what that would look like are welcome.
The UAE has 0% tax.
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It's helpful because...
Old 07-16-2011, 02:03 PM   #27
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It's helpful because...

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Call it insurance, call it a safety net, call it a retirement system -- how can it possibly be helpful to have a terminological debate?

If it's insurance then I would make the argument that we do means testing and only poor people who need it to survive get payments...in turn, the contribution percentages and amounts could be much lower..you know like the 1% it started at with FDR.

or..

If it's a retirement plan for all I would question why we are so moronic to think the best manager of our retirement money would be the federal government in the first place.

In any case, understanding what the intent of this program is and us all agreeing to the purpose would help in framing the debate as to whether we keep it, modify it, etc..without an agreement as to what SS should be in the first place, I am a bit cloudy as to what the debate is about..
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:42 PM   #28
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I wish all those that begrudge paying tax would go off and set up their own "utopian society". Suggestions as to what that would look like are welcome.
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The UAE has 0% tax.
Qatar has 0% personal income tax too. These countries have very low personal income tax rates:

Mascedonia
Bulgaria
Kazakhstan
Russia

Full list here: 2009 Tax Misery & Reform Index - Forbes.com
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:52 PM   #29
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I wish all those that begrudge paying tax would go off and set up their own "utopian society". Suggestions as to what that would look like are welcome.
I wish all of those that make statements like this would go back and read some basic U.S. history (see below). So, the "utopia" you are looking for has already been done and it was called the United States Of America!


"The origin of the income tax on individuals is generally cited as the passage of the 16th Amendment, passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913; however, its history actually goes back even further. During the Civil War Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861 which included a tax on personal incomes to help pay war expenses. The tax was repealed ten years later. However, in 1894 Congress enacted a flat rate Federal income tax, which was ruled unconstitutional the following year by the U.S. Supreme Court because it was a direct tax not apportioned according to the population of each state. The 16th amendment, ratified in 1913, removed this objection by allowing the Federal government to tax the income of individuals without regard to the population of each State. For additional information on taxation in the United States, see the section on taxes on the web site of the U.S. Department of the Treasury. "
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Old 07-16-2011, 03:22 PM   #30
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I wish all of those that make statements like this would go back and read some basic U.S. history (see below). So, the "utopia" you are looking for has already been done and it was called the United States Of America!
The origin of income taxes have more often than not been to finance war that is seen as an existential threat. It's a shame that Bush's ideology wouldn't let him do the same after 9/11.

If the US is to solve the existential threat of zero economic growth and a big deficit it has to do more than dogmatically rely on 18 century documents that embody Enlightenment ideas that became old fashioned almost as soon as the ink dried.
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Old 07-16-2011, 08:46 PM   #31
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Qatar has 0% personal income tax too. These countries have very low personal income tax rates:

Mascedonia
Bulgaria
Kazakhstan
Russia

Full list here: 2009 Tax Misery & Reform Index - Forbes.com
I know a guy who is a citizen of and lives in the UAE. He has a great life. Nothing like oil and gas and petrochemicals to make life nicer. If this is misery, give me some.

Ha
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:22 PM   #32
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