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View Poll Results: Your opinion on Financial Reform
Wall Street needs/deserves a smack down (regulation to limit their activity) 26 92.86%
Everything is fine, Keep it status quo 1 3.57%
No optinion 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-26-2010, 05:48 PM   #41
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Your comment above takes a very clear political position, inviting a response from the other side which, if history repeats itself, will quickly degrade into personal attacks resulting in closing this thread. I am of the opinion the posters eager to "debate" matters here are simply seeking a way to espouse their political philosophy, thus antagonizing those who differ. In almost every case it ends as a hog calling contest.
I'm not asking for a debate. I'm just asking why there is no debate when everything else generates such heated opinions (even for such objective facts as whether GM actually repaid a loan). I find the silence interesting.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:58 PM   #42
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I'm not asking for a debate. I'm just asking why there is no debate when everything else generates such heated opinions (even for such objective facts as whether GM actually repaid a loan). I find the silence interesting.
BTW, I say this now because apparently nobody knows what to think. But rumor has it that Republicans are going to introduce their own legislation after which I'm sure everyone will have an opinion.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:07 PM   #43
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I would start with reform to the mortgage market (make it look more like Canada), phase out the deduction of mortgage interest for tax purposes.
In the US anyway there is a very powerful Realtors' lobby, not to mention all the middle class people who do not want to lose their cherished deduction. It is stupid to encourage overinvestment in housing at the expense of power plants, nuclear research, manufacturing industries, rapid transit, etc.

However, if there is a stupid way to do something we will always find it even if it is hidden under a lot of good alternatives.

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__________________________________
News Alert
from The Wall Street Journal


Senate Republicans successfully blocked lawmakers from moving ahead with sweeping legislation to overhaul U.S. financial markets, a stumble for the Obama administration that likely represents only a temporary setback for Senate progress on the overhaul legislation.

The Senate voted 57-41 on a procedural measure allowing lawmakers to move toward debate on financial regulatory overhaul legislation, falling short of the 60 votes needed. All GOP senators present voted against invoking cloture, joined by at least one Democrat, Sen. Ben Nelson.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703465204575207960621725650.html?m od=djemalertNEWS
The above mentioned Nebraska Senator Nelson is Warren's boy. Apparently Warren hates derivatives, other than the ones Berkshire owns.


Ha
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:04 PM   #44
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Apparently Warren hates derivatives, other than the ones Berkshire owns.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:57 PM   #45
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1. Borrowing money is a personal responsibility, whether it is for a new home, a college education or crystal meth. No one forced people to buy homes they couldn't afford. DW and I could qualify for a mortgage 5X what we are paying, but we know it isn't realistic. What really irks me in this whole mess is the emergence and encouragement of the victim mentality in this debacle -"it wasn't my fault, the evil bankers told me I could afford a new 300K home on $10/hour. And I needed all new furniture and jet skis, all the neighbors had them" And.... "now I expect the folks who played by the rules, lived below their means, and whose own home equity and stock portfolios I trashed when the bank foreclosed on my place next door at 50cents on the dollar to step up and pay higher taxes to bail my stupid a$$ out- it's not my fault, it was the (insert viillan of your choice here). Where's my check, I'm entitled to it... sheesh, all I did was lie about my income on my loan application? ".
Exaggerations. isn't the truth bad enough?
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:47 AM   #46
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The above mentioned Nebraska Senator Nelson is Warren's boy. Apparently Warren hates derivatives, other than the ones Berkshire owns.
It looks like Nelson's provision just got stripped out. (Democrats Deny Buffett on Key Provision) Good thing too. One of the reasons AIG was able to morph into a financial Death Star was because it could enter into derivative contracts without any need to post collateral. It's Aaa rating served as all the collateral counterparties required. Berkshire shouldn't be afforded the same luxury.

P.S. Question for the moderators . . . if I call Ben Nelson an idiot for repeatedly tying to ruin legislation for self-serving ends can it be considered non-partisan, or bi-partisan, in light of my earlier post calling Chuck Grassley an idiot for deliberately misrepresenting facts?
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:16 AM   #47
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P.S. Question for the moderators . . . if I call Ben Nelson an idiot for repeatedly tying to ruin legislation for self-serving ends can it be considered non-partisan, or bi-partisan, in light of my earlier post calling Chuck Grassley an idiot for deliberately misrepresenting facts?
You are lucky I am no longer a mod.........

US Senators, regardless of what you or I think of them, deserve the respect the office entails. Much like the President, or Vice President, or other top officials, whether you like them or not, hate them or not, they are due the respect of their office.

You just called Senator Grassley that name again..........
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:15 AM   #48
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Um, ok. Whatever. You can "respect" things like this, but I don't . . .

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The relationship between Sen. Ben Nelson and Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc. has thrown an unexpected wrench into the White House's bid to speed an overhaul of financial regulation, as the Nebraska Democrat voted for a second time in two days with Republicans to block the bill from moving forward.

Democrats killed a provision Monday pushed by Mr. Nelson that would have helped Berkshire avoid a big financial hit related to its portfolio of derivatives. Berkshire is Mr. Nelson's biggest campaign contributor. Mr. Nelson and his wife, Diane, owned up to $6 million in the company's stock at the end of 2008, according to the latest congressional disclosure records. . . .

Mr. Dodd, appearing to contradict his colleague, said earlier the Berkshire provision was the only issue he and Sen. Harry Reid (D., Nev.) discussed with Mr. Nelson during a tense-looking huddle at the start of Monday's vote.
But I will agree that "idiot" isn't the right word to describe what's going on here.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:54 AM   #49
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It seems a little incestuous, but what Mr. Buffett suggests isn't unreasonable (though I'd add that he shouldn't have a unique exemption and Nelson has lost some credibility as the result of the Cornhusker Kickback).

Let's say you took out a mortgage for 95% loan to value a couple years ago. You can still easily afford to make the payments. Now Congress passes a law which requires that no mortgage be allowed to be over 80% LTV -- and enforces it retroactively to existing contracts. You have, let's say, 92% LTV by this time and you have to come up with 12% of the home's value in cash.... or else. That the contract you entered was fully lawful and acceptable at the time it was executed means *nothing* any more. Congress has forcibly changed the terms in a way that is financially disastrous to you (possibly).

Buffett isn't saying these laws are a bad idea moving forward -- but that you shouldn't retroactively add financially punitive terms to existing deals already in place before the law was passed. In criminal law, we have a prohibition against this sort of ex post facto law. And for a similar reason: it's unjust to move the goalposts after the ball has already been kicked.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:07 AM   #50
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Um, ok. Whatever. You can "respect" things like this, but I don't . . .



But I will agree that "idiot" isn't the right word to describe what's going on here.
Why are we trying to give the Fed all the powers of regaulation? The Fed should control the money supply, that's IT!!!

Having a Consumer Protection Agency INSIDE the Fed? Ludicrous and stupid...........we already HAVE a Consumer Protection Agency!!!
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:16 AM   #51
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It seems a little incestuous, but what Mr. Buffett suggests isn't unreasonable (though I'd add that he shouldn't have a unique exemption and Nelson has lost some credibility as the result of the Cornhusker Kickback).

Let's say you took out a mortgage for 95% loan to value a couple years ago. You can still easily afford to make the payments. Now Congress passes a law which requires that no mortgage be allowed to be over 80% LTV -- and enforces it retroactively to existing contracts. You have, let's say, 92% LTV by this time and you have to come up with 12% of the home's value in cash.... or else. That the contract you entered was fully lawful and acceptable at the time it was executed means *nothing* any more. Congress has forcibly changed the terms in a way that is financially disastrous to you (possibly).

Buffett isn't saying these laws are a bad idea moving forward -- but that you shouldn't retroactively add financially punitive terms to existing deals already in place before the law was passed. In criminal law, we have a prohibition against this sort of ex post facto law. And for a similar reason: it's unjust to move the goalposts after the ball has already been kicked.
Golly. I admit to not having to stomach to follow the news on this story.
I know that I shouldn't be surprised at anything congress does, but I am surprised that Buffet&Co failed at getting this measure removed from the bill. Assuming Ziggy's analogy is correct, such a retroactive measure could cause pandemonium in the markets, with all sorts of folks suddenly going broke.

Maybe it really is playground payback time for the Cornhusker kickback.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:56 AM   #52
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The core of the problem is investments that are part of the internet age. Corporations and banks can transfer money back and forth outside of national boundaries, and no government has a clue what happened to it. They can make up some synthetic derivative in the Cayman Islands and sell it out of there and no government can touch it, or regualte them for it.

I've been reading about the potential blow-up of the derivative markets for more than 10 years in various financial newsletters. I can't believe this is such a surprise. And I'm not terribly savvy financially.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:24 PM   #53
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Goldman Sachs






Ken Posner --- Goldman... basically making big bucks as a Hedge Fund

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