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Old 10-01-2010, 10:46 AM   #41
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Oh for goodness sake

Anyone anywher who thinks there is some personal wealth or money that is not a joint arrangement between an individual and society should simply go to Kabul and prove it.

there is no effective government there. your property is what you and your buddies can survive holding on to against nasty people with lots of guns

As I teach my students Authors create books but only government can make it into "property". If you want resources to be called "yours" you need government and you have to pay for it.

Or go to Kabul and try your luck in armed anarchy
Wow..........
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:36 AM   #42
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Paul Ryan............
I said serious. Ryan's "Roadmap" doesn't balance the budget. It only does so (in 2082) by ignoring the revenue lost by his tax proposals. He had the CBO analyze his spending cuts, but instructed them to use the higher revenue projections under the existing code. The Brookings Institute's analysis of his tax proposals shows that we'd still be running 4% structural deficits with the Roadmap, even after privatizing SS and Medicare. That's not serious.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #43
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I wish folks would stick with one bogeyman. It's confusing when they switch from Somalia to Afghanistan.

Does this argument prove persuasive to your students, or do they recognize a false dilemma appeal when they see it?
I teach my students not to put argument statements in questions. You have to prove the statement first, and then ask the question.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:15 PM   #44
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However it is absolutely critical from an economic perspective to distinguish between expenditures and transfer payments.
Why is it critical?
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:34 PM   #45
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Why is it critical?
from wiki

Transfer payment


In economics, a transfer payment (or government transfer or simply transfer) is a redistribution of income in the market system. These payments are considered to be nonexhaustive because they do not directly absorb resources or create output. Examples of certain transfer payments include welfare (financial aid), social security, and government subsidies for certain businesses (firms).

I take my 35 student class. They each take out a dollar. We pick one person at random and give them all 35 dollars. Or we take one person with 35 dollars and we give one dollar to each person in the class. These are transfer payments. There are no expenditures or productivity or anything economic. The society has the same amount of money as before.

Social security is a classic transfer payment. The recipient spends the money instead of the payer, but the transfer itself costs almost nothing except tiny administrative costs.

To know the true size of government (or the economy) you have to subtract transfer payments.

There is some debate over certain payments as to whether they meet the definition of transfer payments. e.g. are veterans benefits just deferred compensation.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:31 AM   #46
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Social security is a classic transfer payment. The recipient spends the money instead of the payer, but the transfer itself costs almost nothing except tiny administrative costs.
It's a relief to hear that social security costs almost nothing (I was hearing that the system was in terrible trouble). But I'm not sure you've said why the distinction is critical.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:32 AM   #47
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It's a relief to hear that social security costs almost nothing (I was hearing that the system was in terrible trouble). But I'm not sure you've said why the distinction is critical.
Because expenditures take real resources, transfer payments don't.

Transfer payments re not without effects, but they do not involve a "cost"

If you have 4 kids and you leave all your money to one of them or split it among all of them, there is no "cost" or expenditure.

FWIW most pension systems in the whole world run on a PAYG basis.

The problem is not the payment, its the effect on labor supply other wages etc.

That is why money and or wealth and or resources is always a public private partnership. The economy is a machine that produces goods and services. Only those goods and services can be consumed. Transfer payments can determine which goods and services get produced, and in part at what cost, and who gets to consume, but do not in and of themselves cost money.

If you confuse the two you make bad economic decisions.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:30 PM   #48
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Oh for goodness sake

Anyone anywher who thinks there is some personal wealth or money that is not a joint arrangement between an individual and society should simply go to Kabul and prove it.

there is no effective government there. your property is what you and your buddies can survive holding on to against nasty people with lots of guns

As I teach my students Authors create books but only government can make it into "property". If you want resources to be called "yours" you need government and you have to pay for it.

Or go to Kabul and try your luck in armed anarchy

Remembered this comment when reading the following:

Real Estate Collapse Spells Havoc in Dubai
AT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/bu...ubaibuild.html

WHERE:

"Dubai lured people to a gold rush in properties at the height of its real estate boom — including business and political leaders from Afghanistan who invested the deposits from Kabul Bank, one of the country’s largest. The near-collapse of the bank in September was largely a result."

AND:

" "Dubai’s real estate regulators have issued a flurry of rules since 2008 to clarify the situation in Dubai and to comfort potential investors. But new rules sometimes contradict others issued just months earlier, often in ways that leave developers with the advantage and property buyers in a legal limbo, making many wary of ever investing in Dubai again, Ms. Yamalova said.

"Mr. Coutts, the Jones Lang LaSalle executive, said that because Dubai had grown so fast, the government was learning on the job. In more mature markets, “you had 200 years to develop a legal framework,” he said. “It’s now becoming clearer what kind of a legal framework is needed to regulate development here.” "
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:33 PM   #49
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If you confuse the two you make bad economic decisions.
Could you give an example of a bad economic decision which resulted from this confusion?
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:20 AM   #50
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I am willing for them to get rid of the Education dept completely... I will pay the higher local taxes.
I'm willing to give up public education. You want your kids to learn and succeed in life? Pay for it yourself through donations/usage fees.

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I am willing for them to reduce SS by say 15% when I start to get it...
I'll raise you 35%.

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I am willing for them to get out of the wars that seem to drag on forever.... (I was willing to pay for them at the beginning... but heck, win the dang thing and get out... stop this nation building stuff)...
Stop the wars, lop off 25% defense spending, and then freeze it.

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What are YOU willing to give up so this huge debt does not get passed down to our children and grandchildren??
We need more toll roads.


We also need a subscription based firefighting service.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:34 AM   #51
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We need more toll roads.


We also need a subscription based firefighting service.

GOD.... I hate toll roads.... come up with something else


We kind of do have that where I am.... it is a volunteer service and we are taxed directly for that service... prior to them starting the tax, we paid a voluntary $3 per month on a utility bill that went to the firefighters (the suggested amount)... now I pay $80 for fire and $48 for EMS


BTW, the one time I called EMS for a dog bite, they did not show up for over 1 hour.... took my son in myself long before they came...
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:30 PM   #52
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Seeds of Destruction: Why the Path to Economic Ruin Runs Through Washington, and How to Reclaim American Prosperity

by R. Glenn Hubbard (Chairmain of the Council of Economic Advisers for George W. Bush)

I'm I the only one who sees the irony in this?
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:37 PM   #53
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I am willing to give up congressional pay raises, Healthcare and 25% of their SS as that is the deal they are giving us. Fix it for us and then their benefits should never be any better than the average of the private sector.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:20 PM   #54
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I am willing to give up congressional pay raises, Healthcare and 25% of their SS as that is the deal they are giving us. Fix it for us and then their benefits should never be any better than the average of the private sector.
The average congressman and senator doesn't care very much about his official pay and benefits. They make far more in "good deals" while they are in office and lucrative employment afterward. Reducing congressional pay and benefits would just assure that only the very richest people, or the ones most intent on making money with outside assistance, run for public office.
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:28 PM   #55
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Reading comprehension is short today.
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