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Health care?
Old 02-10-2012, 10:30 PM   #1
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Health care?

Anyone for single payer system like Canada?

Everybody is covered, less stress?
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:39 PM   #2
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Doesn't work. No thanks.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:49 PM   #3
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Doesn't work. No thanks.
Documentation?
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:16 AM   #4
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Anyone for single payer system like Canada?
Everybody is covered, less stress?
You would think that with all the wildly successful single-payer systems in the world then at least one of them would catch on here and spread uncontrollably.

Or possibly they're not as wildly successful as we're led to believe.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:23 AM   #5
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As much as the Brits grumble about their NHS, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let anyone take it away from them.

I bet that if we had a single-payer system here, folk would be the same - they'd grumble about the inefficiencies and claim to hate it, but would unite in defense if anyone were to threaten it's existence.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:26 AM   #6
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Doesn't work. No thanks.
Yeah. It's been pretty bad, especially now that all the doctors fled the country, and the provincial governments agreed to ship all the old people to Ellesmere Island when they get sick.

And you know, some of the remaining medical folks don't even speak French! I hear complaints all the time from Cousin Gerald in Quebec.

Mmmmm... I smell bacon on the hoof...
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:34 AM   #7
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Anyone for single payer system like Canada?
Yes, absolutely.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:39 AM   #8
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Yeah. It's been pretty bad, especially now that all the doctors fled the country, and the provincial governments agreed to ship all the old people to Ellesmere Island when they get sick.

And you know, some of the remaining medical folks don't even speak French! I hear complaints all the time from Cousin Gerald in Quebec.

Mmmmm... I smell bacon on the hoof...
What could possibly go wrong with this thread?
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:53 AM   #9
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The US health care is the best in the world and the most expensive. You get what you pay for. And as for Canada's? Yes it works well, but a lot of Canadians cross the border to use the US system if they can afford to. Less wait and better care.

I have two rental properties in Florida. Over 80% of my tenants are from Canada or the UK. They all wait until they are here to get any elective work done. Home it's free, here they pay. Makes you wonder why if it's so good at home.

Any health care system in any country gets the government more involved and control over your life. I for one want less involvement, less control, less government.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:32 AM   #10
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The US health care is the best in the world and the most expensive. You get what you pay for.
What prompts you to say the US is the best? We are indeed the most expensive by far, almost 50% higher cost per capita than the second most expensive country (Norway) and well over double the average for all developed countries. And the highest as a % of GDP. Yet we're 36th in the world for life expectancy and 34th for infant mortality. I don't doubt the US was once the best, but still - on what basis?

Seems odd that every other developed country has cost effectively gone to some form of universal health care. I don't see the value in our "system" at all, and I am a lifelong conservative.

List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:42 AM   #11
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That "bacon on the hoof" comment made me laugh outloud! At this present moment in time, in my own self interest, I like the present way as my HSA tax deduction more than covers my premium, so I continue to have " free" health insurance. If health issues ever crop up, Im sure I will change my tune. That being said, it our country ever did go to universal plan, I only hope the tax scheme is somthing like a national sales tax or VAAT. My reason being is that everyone should have to pay for their free health care, IMHO. If income taxes are the method of payment, not everyone will have a skin in the game. I am not trying to awaken Porky who is currently napping in his mud pit.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:04 AM   #12
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I have yet to meet a UK citizen or a Canadian who would trade their system for ours. Not one. Yes, their systems have problems, but they know that one way or the other they will get care and they won't have to sell the farm to pay for it.

My friend in Italy likes to remind me that while Italy devotes 7% of its GNP to health care compared to our 15%, Italian men live about three years longer than US men.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #13
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Mmmmm... I smell bacon on the hoof...
On the hoof? I thought all pigs rode hogs?
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:24 AM   #14
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I have yet to meet a UK citizen or a Canadian who would trade their system for ours. Not one. Yes, their system has problems but so does ours, especially if one can't afford insurance.

My friend in Italy likes to remind me that while Italy devotes 7% of its GNP to health care compared to our 15%, Italian men live about three years longer than US men.
I apoligize for temporarily derailing thread, but your comment on Italy remind me of their ex-leaders quote this week. I couldnt imagine one our presidents saying this in public.
Silvio Berlusconi: &lsquo;I&rsquo;m Not a Playboy, I&rsquo;m a Playman&rsquo;
Italy's corrupt cartoon satyr of a former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi is still rattling around, being Berlusconish: "I'm not a Playboy, I'm a Play-uomo [Playman] &hellip; The only thing I have not been accused of in all these over-hyped descriptions of my relations with women, with the opposite sex, the only thing they have never accused me of is being gay. I have nothing against homosexuals, let it be clear. Quite the contrary. I always thought the more gay people around, the less competition." [Atlantic, image via Getty]
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #15
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The US health care is the best in the world and the most expensive.
But approximately 50 million people aren't insured. The healthcare itself might be pretty good, but our system for giving people access to it needs some work.

I do have more to say, but know full well that I am dancing on the edge on a thread that may be asking to get shut down in the very near future, so I'll behave myself.

Incidentally, for those who can afford it in the UK and Canada, there is also the option to pay and get your healthcare privately. My Mum was scheduled for a hip replacement in the UK, but my father didn't want her to wait the 18 months so he paid for to have it done privately. Her need wasn't life-threatening, so they would have made her wait - but at least if my parents hadn't had the money, she would eventually have had the surgery.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #16
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I have yet to meet a UK citizen or a Canadian who would trade their system for ours. Not one. Yes, their systems have problems, but they know that one way or the other they will get care and they won't have to sell the farm to pay for it.

My friend in Italy likes to remind me that while Italy devotes 7% of its GNP to health care compared to our 15%, Italian men live about three years longer than US men.

The fact that Italian men live about three years longer on average than American men says more about Italian life and culture than their health care system. We must remember that Italy does not have the epidemics of crime, drugs, and alcohol that we do here in the states, and their cities are not the war zones that ours are.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:37 AM   #17
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People who say that the US health care system is working just fine are most likely (a) working for a large company with good benefits or (b) on Medicare. Try being self-employed, working part-time or unemployed and see how you like it.

I was born in Ireland and worked in the UK. My DH became an Irish citizen so we have a backup plan in case of catastrophic or chronic illness (and we have health insurance - but you know how that works if you ever saw Michael Moore's health care documentary). With the new law where you can't lose your insurance due to a small technicality when you get sick, we rest a little easier. But the idea that insurance needs to be tied to employment is just plain nuts.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:40 AM   #18
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A lady was telling me about the health care in the UK and how her friend went to the hospital and "...it didn't cost anything...".

I said: "Well...SOMEBODY paid for it..."

She said: "Yes...the government! They've got plenty of money!"

I had to walk away...
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:15 PM   #19
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A lady was telling me about the health care in the UK and how her friend went to the hospital and "...it didn't cost anything...".

I said: "Well...SOMEBODY paid for it..."

She said: "Yes...the government! They've got plenty of money!"

I had to walk away...
Why? You're paying considerably more while 45 million of your fellow Americans go under insured or completely without health care. You don't think most Americans are totally oblivious to what US health care costs them or the various ways they pay dearly - for poorer outcomes?
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:16 PM   #20
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Incidentally, for those who can afford it in the UK and Canada, there is also the option to pay and get your healthcare privately. My Mum was scheduled for a hip replacement in the UK, but my father didn't want her to wait the 18 months so he paid for to have it done privately. Her need wasn't life-threatening, so they would have made her wait - but at least if my parents hadn't had the money, she would eventually have had the surgery.
I've said this several times before that in the UK the NHS is not the only option, and many people have private health insurance so they can get elective treatment without waiting. The companies I worked for in the 70's and 80's, before I came to the USA, provided health insurance as a benefit.

When we went to the UK last year for 7 months I contacted Blue Cross to check on coverage and I was covered for any doctor visit plus they told which was the closest in-plan private hospital (it was only 10 miles from the small market town we were staying in)


Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
A lady was telling me about the health care in the UK and how her friend went to the hospital and "...it didn't cost anything...".

I said: "Well...SOMEBODY paid for it..."

She said: "Yes...the government! They've got plenty of money!"

I had to walk away...
Single payer systems paid for by taxes are only free at point of service and many folks forget that. I've even seen a political commentator on the TV telling people to make full use of libraries because they are free.

I am personally in favor of universal health coverage but think the US would be better served using a universal private insurance system and there are several countries who have this type of system in place.

However, what is common among all the countries that have universal coverage regardless of single payer or competing insurance companies is that the government sets price controls, and all health insurance companies have to be non-profit.
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