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What's in it for FIRE'd folk...
Old 02-13-2009, 09:50 AM   #21
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What's in it for FIRE'd folk...

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Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans.
Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act - Barack Obama News- msnbc.com

We get the most patriotic part of the bailout porkfest subsidy stimulus. Anybody thinking they got left out of this is sadly wrong.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:59 AM   #22
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This needs to be moved to FIRE-Related topics........
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:59 AM   #23
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I'm not saying that the stimulus/bailout will fix the economy. I'm not saying that I have faith in the government.

But being a person with a lot of imagination, and for the purposes of argument, I'll say that there is a possibility that the stimulus/bailout will give us an opportunity to continue living in a world with a functioning financial system and a government.

To illustrate, this scene from Mad Max:
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:04 AM   #24
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:06 AM   #25
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This needs to be moved to FIRE-Related topics........
I agree. It would be easier to discuss everything if every thread were in that forum. That way an individual post wouldn't risk being deleted as easily if the Moderators decided there was some political elements in the post.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:09 AM   #26
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By popular request.... but please remember to keep it FIRE related, thanks!
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:42 AM   #27
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As I glance through the list, I don't see much that will really modify behavior.

Sure, there are things that will lower my taxes, in theory that might allow me to spend more. But, it's not like the edu credit going from $2,000 to $2,500 is going to change my mind about whether my DD attends college or not. Same with most of those items.

I will look at the new car credit/deduction whatever. I'm kinda on the fence about replacing a vehicle or two in the family. As others have said, the increased demand might actually make this a worse time to buy a new car.

-ERD50
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:46 AM   #28
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One-time payments to those who don't work: For retirees, disabled individuals and others who don't work, the bill provides a one-time $250 payment. Estimated cost: $14.2 billion.


WHOO HOOOO!!!!


Im gonna get stimulated, thanks
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:47 AM   #29
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:53 AM   #30
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:16 AM   #31
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....
This may actually induce me to take a class or two since it will be FREE (local state U offers distance ed classes that are top notch for ~$650 per 3 semester hour class). I need to at least figure out a way to buy some books for free while ole Uncle is paying for them.
Iíve been looking into Dexís suggestion to try U.C. Berkeleyís Webcasts. You get video or audio, that can be downloaded to your iPod, of a peppy young profís lectures. Iíve started following one of them and got the books from the library. Of course, Iím not getting credit but itís interesting to see how the subject has changed in 38(!) years. It's free and I don't have to write papers or take exams.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:22 AM   #32
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One more thing: Education. Not sure how it was set up in previous years, but the new credit is $2500. It's called the "American Opportunity" (pardon the political reference, but I can see the eagles soaring from here!) tax credit.
Oh lord. I'm now going to have to read all the fine print to see how this interacts with the the existing credits and deduction, which already interact with each other. Complexity ^ 4th power.

Hope credit - good for the first two years if pursuing a degree. Limited to $1800 per student, but the rate is 100% of first $X expenses, then 50% until the $1800 is hit (something like that)

Lifetime Learning Credit - fewer restrictions, I don't think you need to pursue a degree, but 20% of tuition up to $2,000 max per return.

Then deductions figure in somewhere if you don't qualify for the credits I guess, but I get lost at that point.

Here's the (hopefully) unintended consequence of this mish-mosh of convoluted rules:


Take two families, identical in all ways except that Family A sends two kids to college in the same 4 years. Family B send two kids to college sequentially, over 8 years. Using the same $1,800/student Hope and $2,000/return LLC limits for all years (they have changed them year-to-year, but I'm trying to keep this simple), you end up with -

Family A collecting $11,200 in edu credits, and
Family B collecting $16,000 in edu credits.

Now, why in the world would you want to legislate such a thing so that it is dependent on the timing of the births of the children you send to college? My guess is that not a single Congressperson who signed those bills is aware of this. The bills are too complex to know all this w/o a lot of study. But they sign 'em, and pat themselves on the back for "saving" us money.

-ERD50
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:37 PM   #33
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One-time payments to those who don't work: For retirees, disabled individuals and others who don't work, the bill provides a one-time $250 payment. Estimated cost: $14.2 billion.


WHOO HOOOO!!!!


Im gonna get stimulated, thanks
You guys get $250? I need to FIRE tomorrow........
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:51 PM   #34
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Good luck on reading the fine print. The bill is over 1,000 pages long now. If you actually read it you would be ahead of the people who are going to vote on it.
Quote:
When CNSNews.com asked members of both parties on Capitol Hill on Thursday whether they had read the full, final bill, not one member could say, "Yes."

And only one--Voinovich--volunteered that he had actually read the version of the bill that had passed the Senate.
Edit: I found the text of the bill on a website called ReadTheStimulus.Org - their motto is somebody needs to read it!

Link http://readthestimulus.org/
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:29 PM   #35
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If I get anything I think Im gonna buy a gun and some tinfoil with it
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:31 PM   #36
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That could come to pass. One thing about government "fixes" to what ails us is that the unintended consequences can will be worse than the original illness.
Taking a hint from T-Al, I've corrected this for you.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:24 AM   #37
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It sure seems to be working pretty good this morning
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:37 PM   #38
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I'm trying to figure out if there is anything in the stimulus/bailout that will help me (and probably you as well).
Read Fairmark article for general overview.

We'll benefit from the tax credit, and the increased Hope credit. As the bill gets more coverage, I expect there may be a few other impacts to the bottom line in 2009.
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