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Old 03-16-2011, 10:44 AM   #221
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These are classic stories! Expectation to learn + discipline = education!
If I told my students in school now these stories they would refuse to believe that stuff ever happened. I've had some kids who never heard of the word "paddling" before.
Don't know where you are. If within an hour's drive of my home, I'll provide, in my thickly accented English, first hand account and practical examples to your class. Free.

Starting with... everyone in the class stands to attention when the teacher steps into the classroom. It goes downhill from there.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:41 AM   #222
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Don't know where you are. If within an hour's drive of my home, I'll provide, in my thickly accented English, first hand account and practical examples to your class. Free.

Starting with... everyone in the class stands to attention when the teacher steps into the classroom. It goes downhill from there.
Glad I'm not in school anymore... I was fairly familiar with "the board of education".
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:03 PM   #223
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Glad I'm not in school anymore... I was fairly familiar with "the board of education".
X2. Ours was wooden and had holes drilled through it so you could hear the "whoosh" as it was moving towards your backside! One time I knew beforehand I was going to a "board meeting" and wore 3 pairs of underwear. First whack they caught on and sent me to the bathroom with the coach who made sure I removed the extra underwear. Then, I got an extra whack for my ingenious plan!
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:33 PM   #224
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Never got paddled. However, my 5th grade teacher threw me up against the lockers when I smarted off to him. A little while later I found out he was a grunt and did 2 tours as infantry in Vietnam as a platoon leader..........that was the end of my rebellion in class..........
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:35 PM   #225
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We'll see.....but it took some brass ones on his part to vote for a bill that could put his wife out of work................wonder how comfy the couch is these days for him?

Which bill are you referring to? The bill which reduced union bargaining rights had nothing to do with these preliminary lay off notices. The preliminary lay off notices where due to budget issues. Did he also sign a bill which reduced school funding? I thought they were still arm wrestling over that since they don't have a quorum without the Dem senators.

BTW, there has been no "bill" in Illinois, yet we're having large numbers of teacher layoffs as well. That is, we had large numbers of layoffs last June and it's projected there will be additonal layoffs this June. The layoffs are being driven by reduced tax revenues both in local property taxes and in state income taxes.

I think in Wis, the current anticipation of layoffs (the issuance of preliminary layoff notices) is due to current revenue issues. The govenor pushed the bill reducing union bargaining power in anticipation of future reduced state funding which will result in additional layoffs. He wants the local school boards and county and municipal employers to have increased flexibility in handling the budget cut backs with minimal union resistance.

It's really quite different than the assumption that the recently passed bill reducing union bargaining rights is leading the anticipated public sector layoffs (including possibly Ms Fitzgerald). These layoffs are budget driven and would have happened without the union bill.

The portion of the bill which was stripped off would have mandated that public employees pay more for their health insurance and pensions. That would tend to reduce layoffs, not cause them. Money public employers don't have to pay for these benefits would be available to retain employees that might otherwise have been laid off.

Sorry for trying to drill through to the facts, but this whole deal has been fraught with over-reactions, first by the unions and now by people responding to their demonstrations and exaggerated commentary.
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:56 PM   #226
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Which bill are you referring to? The bill which reduced union bargaining rights had nothing to do with these preliminary lay off notices. The preliminary lay off notices where due to budget issues. Did he also sign a bill which reduced school funding? I thought they were still arm wrestling over that since they don't have a quorum without the Dem senators.
The budget repair bill took away collective bargaining rights so local govt could balance their budget or allow collective bargaining to continue, it took away the dtate mandate. If local govt still want to play footsie with the union they can, but there's no blessing of the state behind them, so now they are on an island. The budget bill that cuts $900 million in state aid to schools is the REAL bill. All the Republicans need is one Dem senator to be IN THE ROOM and they can pass the budget if they vote along party lines. We'll see how that plays out..........

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It's really quite different than the assumption that the recently passed bill reducing union bargaining rights is leading the anticipated public sector layoffs (including possibly Ms Fitzgerald). These layoffs are budget driven and would have happened without the union bill.
Yes and no. Our "esteemed" last Governor, Jim Doyle, raided the Transportation Fund (gas tax revenues), took a lum sum settlement on the tobacco settlement fund, negotiated long-term agreements with the Indian tribes illegally, etc. So, if Gov Doyle or Tom Barrett were in office, maybe we could make all those little budget problems go away.........

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Sorry for trying to drill through to the facts, but this whole deal has been fraught with over-reactions, first by the unions and now by people responding to their demonstrations and exaggerated commentary.
The real fact noone is pointing to is that the state of Wisconsin, like other states took STIMULUS money to keep teachers on the payroll, not rebuild roads or whatever. Now the time has come to pay the piper because "Stimumuls Part II" has gone nowhere in Congress. Maybe our budget deficit would be lower had we as a state made the cuts 2 years ago and used the Stimulus money to put some road crews to work..........
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:13 PM   #227
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The budget bill that cuts $900 million in state aid to schools is the REAL bill.
There ya go..........

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Yes and no. Our "esteemed" last Governor, Jim Doyle, raided the Transportation Fund (gas tax revenues), took a lum sum settlement on the tobacco settlement fund, negotiated long-term agreements with the Indian tribes illegally, etc. So, if Gov Doyle or Tom Barrett were in office, maybe we could make all those little budget problems go away.........
This may all be true but I don't see the connection to the union bill.
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The real fact noone is pointing to is that the state of Wisconsin, like other states took STIMULUS money to keep teachers on the payroll, not rebuild roads or whatever. Now the time has come to pay the piper because "Stimumuls Part II" has gone nowhere in Congress. Maybe our budget deficit would be lower had we as a state made the cuts 2 years ago and used the Stimulus money to put some road crews to work..........
HMMMMMM Sounds like there was some mis-management in cheesehead land. Even corrupt, Dem Machine Illinois used dollars sent for teachers for teachers and dollars sent for roads, etc. as intended. Rt 53, just a few hundred yards from where I'm sitting, got resurfaced last year and is getting additional work beginning shortly. I'm an actual, real life victim of the construction traffic jams!

You're correct that the bux sent to keep teachers on board is now shut off and since there hasn't been adequate economic recovery in the two year stimulus period to make up for the stimulus expiring, layoffs are occuring now.
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:34 PM   #228
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Don't know where you are. If within an hour's drive of my home, I'll provide, in my thickly accented English, first hand account and practical examples to your class. Free.

Starting with... everyone in the class stands to attention when the teacher steps into the classroom. It goes downhill from there.
I live in the state of Missouri. Some schools still paddle here but only a few mostly in rural areas. Made me think a few years back when I had to "witness" a paddling. It was a big 5th grade boy who obviously had never been paddled before and wasnt taking it too seriously. The principal (a women with a good swing speed) hit him once and he yelled "stop". So she did and he turned around to us and said "that hurt!". I wasnt a good witness and as I couldnt keep from laughing. I said "Chris what was you expecting it to do?" He said something like "I dont know, but I didnt think it would feel like that". Two swings later he went back to class, and never had to visit the office again!
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:01 PM   #229
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Two swings later he went back to class, .....
.... humiliated, traumatized for life, unable to cope, focus on school or keep up with his classmates. His parents pressed charges for assault, then sued the principal, the local school board and the State of Missouri for $5.8 Million for grevious bodily harm, pain and suffering, etc, etc. . They settled out of court for $2.9 million, and blew it all in a couple of years. He dropped out, did a prison stretch, and is now in court-ordered rehab, washing dishes at the local Waffle House...


edited to add:

BTW, I went to school in Missouri...and the fear of corporal punishment (with matching punishment at home) was pretty effective in keeping me on the straight and narrow. YMMV
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:44 PM   #230
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Westernskies has the modern scenario down pat. Likely corporal punishment would not work in today's society.

Mulligan, Missouri is long ways from SW PA.
Nowadays the anything goes permissive, rah-rah, feel good system with the requisite social promotion does not seem to work too well. Throwing tons of money at teachers, 'puters and whatnot seems like a waste if looked from the point of what was accomplished.

Is there a real solution? I don't know.

Still it is nice to see a good many highly motivated kids learning for the sake of knowledge. I know a few of those in our town. All is not lost.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:19 PM   #231
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Westernskies has the modern scenario down pat. Likely corporal punishment would not work in today's society.

Mulligan, Missouri is long ways from SW PA.
Nowadays the anything goes permissive, rah-rah, feel good system with the requisite social promotion does not seem to work too well. Throwing tons of money at teachers, 'puters and whatnot seems like a waste if looked from the point of what was accomplished.

Is there a real solution? I don't know.

Still it is nice to see a good many highly motivated kids learning for the sake of knowledge. I know a few of those in our town. All is not lost.
I have been in education 25 years, and I dont have the anwers. I have been in more rural area schools and they are different than the big city schools. I wouldnt have worked in those places if you had tripled my salary! We have several teachers who would actually make more money retired than working but they enjoy teaching and their impact on students. And there are a lot of fine students that go under the radar trying their best. The biggest problem in my area, in my opinion is lack of motivation. You would be surprised how many just want to do enough to pass and arent worried about an "A" or "B". They are not embarrassed by a "D". Home lives on some kids were just pitiful. You wanted to hug them for just making the effort to come, because no one at home cared if they did.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:31 PM   #232
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Is there a real solution? I don't know.
More "Tiger Mother" style parenting: Amy Chua's "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother," on Chinese-American family culture

I don't know about America, but out here in Hong Kong after school academic activities are generally standard for most children from an early age - music, languages, maths being far more popular than art or sports.

It's a very different upbringing from what I experienced.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:23 PM   #233
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The Wild West kves in Wisconsin

Death Threats by the Dozens in Wisconsin - Deroy Murdock - National Review Online

"We will hunt you down. We will slit your throats. We will drink your blood. I will have your decapitated head on a pike in the Madison town square. This is your last warning.”
Is this a passage from Bram Stoker’s Dracula? A snippet from al-Qaeda’s latest missive? No, this e-mail reached Wisconsin state senator Dan Kapanke (R., La Crosse) on March 9, after he voted for GOP governor Scott Walker’s controversial budget and labor reforms."

Ha
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:29 PM   #234
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Slit throats, and heads on poles aside...

A judge put a temporary restraining order on the law while it undergoes legal challenge.

Judge blocks contentious Wisconsin union law - Yahoo! News
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:07 PM   #235
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Death Threats by the Dozens in Wisconsin - Deroy Murdock - National Review Online

"We will hunt you down. We will slit your throats. We will drink your blood. I will have your decapitated head on a pike in the Madison town square. This is your last warning.”
Is this a passage from Bram Stoker’s Dracula? A snippet from al-Qaeda’s latest missive? No, this e-mail reached Wisconsin state senator Dan Kapanke (R., La Crosse) on March 9, after he voted for GOP governor Scott Walker’s controversial budget and labor reforms."

Ha
A Dem rep from IN had a similar experience during the debate over healthcare a couple of years ago.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:29 PM   #236
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Yup, more interesting times in Wisconsin. This is merely a stall tactic while the frenzied Dems circulate recall petitions.

If I were Governor Walker, I would:

Give the Legislature a 24 hour notice to come into special session. Have the Senate vote on the Budget Reapir Bill. You do not need to allow another 60 hours of fillibustering and all that. Do a simple procedural roll call vote. It will pass, and then it goes to the Assembly, where it will pass again. Then Gov. Walker can sign it into law AGAIN, but that will be the end of this part of the battle.

I would do that rather than go down the Appelate Court path, which could take months.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:37 PM   #237
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I'm pretty sure I saw on last night's "Rachel Maddow Show" that the first of recall campaigns succeeded in gathering enough signatures a month ahead of the deadline and am curious about what the mood in Wisconsin is with a bit of time passed since the events surrounding the collective bargaining protests occurred. Any Badgers have updates?
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:52 PM   #238
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I'm pretty sure I saw on last night's "Rachel Maddow Show" that the first of recall campaigns succeeded in gathering enough signatures a month ahead of the deadline and am curious about what the mood in Wisconsin is with a bit of time passed since the events surrounding the collective bargaining protests occurred. Any Badgers have updates?
I'm not a Badger, but I wonder, who are they recalling - the representatives who ran off rather than perform their elected duties?

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Old 04-04-2011, 01:49 PM   #239
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I am also curious if the representatives who ran off were compensated during that period.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:38 PM   #240
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I'm not a Badger, but I wonder, who are they recalling - the representatives who ran off rather than perform their elected duties?
-ERD50
Eight of each, 8 Republicans and 8 Democrats. There are enough signatures to recall one Republican, and almost enough to recall one Democrat.
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