John Gault Speaks Up - He must be stopped

[dex]

John Gault is speaking up and he must be crushed. This man is only able to quit because he has saved his money and invested it. The government needs to enact laws that take away not only his bonus but his savings. Then his American dream will become a nightmare as he must continue to work for AIG.

Why? Because is all the other John Gaults out there quit, the Ponzi scheme would collapse. That would mean that all of us that are retired or planning to do so would be in trouble. Who would be left to pay all the taxes.

See post #11 about the Ponzi scheme
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ore-43334.html



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/op...ntis.html?_r=1

DEAR Mr. Liddy,
It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. I hope you take the time to read this entire letter. Before describing the details of my decision, I want to offer some context:
++++++
You and I have never met or spoken to each other, so I’d like to tell you about myself. I was raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills. My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the institute’s generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

[Independent]

I assume you are talking about John Galt from Atlas Shrugged.

My question about the AIG employee is "Did he really 'create wealth' for anyone except himself and his employer?" It seems to me that trading commodities is 99.9% a zero-sum game. Traders provide a public service by providing liquidity, but they'd be willing to do that if they earned $100k per year. His big income does not prove that the rest of us should be terribly concerned if he quits.

(That doesn't mean I agree with after-the-fact punitive taxes. I'm simply questioning the analogy to the novel.)

[samclem]

That's a classy letter that says everything perfectly. Good for him. If he's good at his job he'll likely be hired by someone els, but I'm sure he knows that a public letter like this will reduce his market value to future employers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent Traders provide a public service by providing liquidity, but they'd be willing to do that if they earned $100k per year.

I guess these for-profit companies are just not too bright. Here they have a very competitive, high-stakes, zero-sum game (options trading) which requires extensive specialized knowledge in order to out-predict the competition, and they could be getting the same talent whether they pay $100K or $1 million. I wonder why they never thought of that?

[Keim]

Is it just me, or do elements of this AIG mess show the dangers of when gov't gets involved in business. AIG made a business decision to honor bonus commitments (Debatable whether it was a good one). Now that gov't is involved it isn't looked at with a business eye. It is looked at with a political eye. Can good business decisions be made with a political eye?

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keim Is it just me, or do elements of this AIG mess show the dangers of when gov't gets involved in business. AIG made a business decision to honor bonus commitments (Debatable whether it was a good one). Now that gov't is involved it isn't looked at with a business eye. It is looked at with a political eye. Can good business decisions be made with a political eye?

AIG created its own mess when they were picking up nickels in front of the steam roller. "Look at how slow it is. It's like free money!"

There are plenty of good MBAs out of work. Supply/demand dictates that salaries and bonuses will decrease.

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem I guess these for-profit companies are just not too bright. Here they have a very competitive, high-stakes, zero-sum game (options trading) which requires extensive specialized knowledge in order to out-predict the competition, and they could be getting the same talent whether they pay $100K or $1 million. I wonder why they never thought of that?

How'd that super-elite talent work out for them?

[ChrisC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus How'd that super-elite talent work out for them?

You are too funny.

[Keim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus AIG created its own mess when they were picking up nickels in front of the steam roller. "Look at how slow it is. It's like free money!" There are plenty of good MBAs out of work. Supply/demand dictates that salaries and bonuses will decrease.

Absolutely AIG made their own mess. My point is: With the Gov't stepping in to bail them (and banks and car companies and etc...) out, it is buying ownership/control in them. These businesses may not now be run with a strict eye towards business. Politicians will now feel they should have a say in how things are done. Can good business decisions be made with a political eye?

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent I assume you are talking about John Galt from Atlas Shrugged. My question about the AIG employee is "Did he really 'create wealth' for anyone except himself and his employer?" It seems to me that trading commodities is 99.9% a zero-sum game. Traders provide a public service by providing liquidity, but they'd be willing to do that if they earned $100k per year. His big income does not prove that the rest of us should be terribly concerned if he quits. (That doesn't mean I agree with after-the-fact punitive taxes. I'm simply questioning the analogy to the novel.)

"I started at this company in 1998 as an equity trader, became the head of equity and commodity trading and, a couple of years before A.I.G.’s meltdown last September,"

It was equity and commodity trading.

You need to do more research on commodity trading; your assumption is not correct.

Also, your assumption that "they'd be willing to do that if they earned $100k per year." does not reflect how labor compensation works in the USA.

The issue is not about his "big income".

I did spell Galt incorrectly in my post.

[ziggy29]

This Galt guy must be a Superman. All of a sudden, the dude seems to be everywhere...

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keim Absolutely AIG made their own mess. My point is: With the Gov't stepping in to bail them (and banks and car companies and etc...) out, it is buying ownership/control in them. These businesses may not now be run with a strict eye towards business. Politicians will now feel they should have a say in how things are done. Can good business decisions be made with a political eye?

Career politicians probably aren't the best people to make good business decisions. In fact, it sounds like a disaster.

Of course, the business people/MBAs in charge of those companies obviously weren't the best, either.

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex You need to do more research on commodity trading; your assumption is not correct.

Unless the trader is hedging (i.e., is an oil producer or a farmer with oranges), it is indeed a zero-sum game. The IRS makes a distinction between hedgers and traders.

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus Unless the trader is hedging (i.e., is an oil producer or a farmer with oranges), it is indeed a zero-sum game. The IRS makes a distinction between hedgers and traders.

What is that distinction and what does it mean to the marketplace?

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex What is that distinction and what does it mean to the marketplace?

Hedging transactions are not subject to MTM accounting. Also, of course, a hedger can hold the future to expiration and make delivery. Traders have to exit the contract before expiry so that a tanker of oil doesn't show up in their driveway.

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus Hedging transactions are not subject to MTM accounting. Also, of course, a hedger can hold the future to expiration and make delivery. Traders have to exit the contract before expiry so that a tanker of oil doesn't show up in their driveway.

I'm not meaning to be thick here.
What important insight does this info add to this thread?

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keim It is looked at with a political eye. Can good business decisions be made with a political eye?

No, and this will not end well, either.....

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex I'm not meaning to be thick here. What important insight does this info add to this thread?

You questioned Independent's assumption about commodities trading being a zero-sum game. I disputed your contradiction of his assumption.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus How'd that super-elite talent work out for them?

Well, in the options-trading arm of AIG, it sounds like they did okay (if the guy's letter is to be believed).

If you mean AIG overall, it looks like it has worked out great. If the "game" had continued, they'd all be fabulously wealthy. The black swan came along and they lost the bet (which does not mean it was a bad bet). Yet still the government is riding in to cushion their fall. Crazy like a fox, they is.

The suckers are you and me and whoever pays taxes.

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem It looks like it has worked out great. If the "game" had continued, they'd all be fabulously wealthy. The black swan came along and they lost the bet (which does not mean it was a bad bet). Yet still the government is riding in to cushion their fall. Crazy like a fox, they is. The suckers are you and me and whoever pays taxes.

Don't all those guys pay taxes too?

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus You questioned Independent's assumption about commodities trading being a zero-sum game. I disputed your contradiction of his assumption.

I still don't get it.
Can you give more info and explanation?
txs