|
|
02-25-2011, 08:10 AM
|
#201
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 514
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy
Isn't it the same as the justification for all taxes?
|
I have no objection to paying taxes. I recognize that it costs money to live in a civilized society, and I'm willing to pay my fair share.
What I have a problem with is when the same money is taxed repeatedly. I earn some income, the government takes a cut. I take what's left and use it to buy something, whoops, that's taxed too. Then I die, and want to leave what's left to my kids. Guess what, taxed again.
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
02-25-2011, 08:17 AM
|
#202
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 514
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy
why should wealthy people inheriting an estate get the benefit. Why shouldn't middle class/upper class/X people get the benefit?
|
Um... because it's their money?
Or are we ready to decide that society as a whole actually ultimately owns all assets, and individuals are just allowed to use it at the ruling government's whim?
Isn't there a word for that? Social....something. I'm blanking. Help me out.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 08:35 AM
|
#203
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kombat
Or are we ready to decide that society as a whole actually ultimately owns all assets, and individuals are just allowed to use it at the ruling government's whim?
|
That is a common idea on this board. We've had the discussion many times and usually it results in closing the thread down.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 08:37 AM
|
#204
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
See below
|
Quote:
On the tax side, you seem to be mixing individual FIT and total tax collections - the 25.5% is total, the $899b is individual income only. I don't follow this. The 25.5% is FIT effective tax rate from the CBO, what other taxes are you saying are included?
|
You didn't provide a link for your number, so I can't see where you got it. I'm guessing the original source is here Congressional Budget Office - Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates: 1979 to 2005
Table 1A in the appendix shows four types of federal taxes. For the top quintile they are these percents of income:
14.1% Individual Income Tax
+6.0% Social Insurance Tax
+4.9% Corporate Income Tax *
+0.5% Excise Taxes
------
25.5% Total Federal Taxes
Instead of raising taxes on the top 20%, I suggested raising taxes on the top 1%. So I used column L which shows 19.1% individual FIT for that group. I got income rates and number of taxpayers from Table 1C.
"Doesn't come close" isn't very precise. I provided numbers to show that much of the 2010 deficit is 9+% unemployment. The long term general fund deficit is more like $520 billion. So I think that $140 billion, which we could get by simply raising the average individual FIT rate to maybe 27% on the top 1% of taxpayers, could be a "significant" part of the package.
You apparently found some people who think we could cover 100% of the deficit with taxes on the rich, I know I'm not one of them. If the OP was only addressed to a few posters, it might have helped to name them.
* Note that the allocation of Corp income tax to individuals is difficult. The CBO has historically allocated 100% of CIT to all owners of capital. That makes sense in a closed economy. However, as capital has become much more mobile than workers, there's a case for allocating a significant piece to workers instead of capital.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 08:52 AM
|
#205
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies
The relevance is because your perspective is so unashamedly pro-tax for you to be considering the private sector.
|
I worked for the gov't for a few years as a TA 35 years ago. Other than that, I've always worked in private business. But I think our tax system should be more progressive, and I think an inheritance (or estate) tax should be part of the mix.
If I were to say "I can ignore everyone else's opinion because they're all blinded by their circumstances, while I'm the only person who can see these things clearly" it wouldn't make sense for me to talk to anyone who disagreed with me.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 08:55 AM
|
#206
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
|
By progressive tax, Do you mean that progressives pay extra tax ? Sort of since you want it so bad, you should pay up.
Don't worry though, your money will be wisely spent this time, they promise.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 08:56 AM
|
#207
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
|
Government as a whole needs to live like the folks on this board, live BELOW their means...........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 09:07 AM
|
#208
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
After carefully perusing this thread, I'll take Porky across the board for $100 !
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 09:44 AM
|
#209
|
gone traveling
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
|
Not fair, since you have a dog in the fight.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 11:26 AM
|
#210
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
By progressive tax, Do you mean that progressives pay extra tax ? Sort of since you want it so bad, you should pay up.
Don't worry though, your money will be wisely spent this time, they promise.
|
Apparently "progressive" is confusing. I'll try again
I worked for the gov't for a few years as a TA 35 years ago. Other than that, I've always worked in private business. But I think our tax system should [have higher tax rates for people who have higher incomes and lower tax rates for people who have lower incomes], and I think an inheritance (or estate) tax should be part of the mix.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 12:01 PM
|
#211
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent
But I think our tax system should [have higher tax rates for people who have higher incomes and lower tax rates for people who have lower incomes], and I think an inheritance (or estate) tax should be part of the mix.
|
I think there should be a liberal tax. You want it, you pay for it.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 12:14 PM
|
#212
|
gone traveling
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I think there should be a liberal tax. You want it, you pay for it.
|
No, it needs to be Other People's Money.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 01:02 PM
|
#213
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,994
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy
I thought there was an exclusion of $5 million on the estate tax. So anybody paying it would be pretty wealthy even if it split amongst a few siblings. Did I make a mistake here?
The point I wanted to make was that you can't evaluate the fairness of a tax in isolation. You really have to look at the entire system.
Regarding your neighbour, I think you should videotape him and report him for fraud. That would help get our overall tax burden down.
|
O.K...friends...I think the estate tax issue is a moot point. With the now 5 million dollar exclusion ..it will not have the impact it has had in the past. So let's agree...that it was a problem before the exemption increase but is no longer the elephant in the room it once was...as of January.
Along the lines of "tax the rich"... Local and state governments have to balance their budgets. The Federal government should do the same. How they do that is up to them. They are pushing for more tax dollars...so...it makes it easier for them NOT to have to do something. I don't think any of us are impressed with the way Congress has appropriated our tax dollars the last 20 years of so (if not longer). Because of this, I am for reducing the footprint of the government.
For ex: How right is it...that just because I become a Federal employee...they pay off my student loans. ? Yep...happens...and is a benefit.
I read about this last year...and this week our news channel carried a segment on it.
Our government is so big, so cumbersome...even they can not find the waste. Wouldn't be surprised if the waste = 15% or more all spending. I'm certain I will not be able to find any valid statistics on that.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 01:15 PM
|
#214
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,994
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy
I thought there was an exclusion of $5 million on the estate tax. So anybody paying it would be pretty wealthy even if it split amongst a few siblings. Did I make a mistake here?
The point I wanted to make was that you can't evaluate the fairness of a tax in isolation. You really have to look at the entire system.
Your comment about "Jo Blow" getting a benefit from the estate tax is no different from any other tax. I paid tens of thousands of dollars of income tax this past year for which I saw no benefit. Why should others benefit from my hard work? Why can't they pay for their own benefits by themselves. Did Jo Blow do anything to deserve my tax money? I worked very hard to earn it and it's just been taken away from me and given to others.
I think if you think about taxes in terms of what's "fair" you will never be satisfied by any tax system. Some people will always end up paying more to the government than they get back in benefits. Although the US is a capitalist society, we still believe in help those less fortunate than ourselves. That means that people with good incomes/fortune will end up paying more in taxes than they ever recover from government benefits.
Regarding your neighbour, I think you should videotape him and report him for fraud. That would help get our overall tax burden down.
|
I do not object to paying taxes while living. I object to the "death tax".
So...what I meant about Jo Blow...is that he is getting it all the while I am living. Don't know that I like it that he also gets it because I am dead. I would admittedly enough...prefer my children to get it...since it was my hard work. I have a right to think that.
Disclosure: I am not worth 5 million. Numbers are for the sake of discussion.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 01:54 PM
|
#215
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,994
|
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 03:19 PM
|
#216
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,629
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I think there should be a liberal tax. You want it, you pay for it.
|
I've thought that we should set federal spending by direct vote. Divide the budget into 6-10 major categories and have annual referendums where we get to pick the number for each.
What do you think about that?
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 03:29 PM
|
#217
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 9,343
|
" Don't tax me and don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree."
I love that quote posted by M Paquette, I believe. If tied up to a lie detector, 90% of us would have to admit we prefer that method of taxation
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 03:32 PM
|
#218
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent
I've thought that we should set federal spending by direct vote. Divide the budget into 6-10 major categories and have annual referendums where we get to pick the number for each.
What do you think about that?
|
Is each vote weighted by the amount the voter pays in FIT?
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 03:42 PM
|
#219
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 9,343
|
Make sure the government doesnt take it all in the estate tax, because in Seattle they tacked one more tax onto death. Dying isnt cheap anymore!
A New Kind of Death Tax
As of January 1, 2011 it costs money to die in Seattle. King County, which includes Seattle, has instituted a $50 fee for reporting a death to the Medical Examiner's Office. If you don't pay, you don't get the permission and paperwork needed in order to be buried.
|
|
|
02-25-2011, 04:06 PM
|
#220
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 197
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
Is each vote weighted by the amount the voter pays in FIT?
|
Only letting the landed gentry vote... yeah, that's never lead to any problems.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|