Let's Tax The Rich!!!

[youbet]

I'd have thought we'd solved this by now...

I know the answer. I'm just holding back because I'm enjoying the conversation and hate to cut it short.

 

[explanade]

I think it's possible to separate our personal situation and offer honest opinions about what would be best for everyone without respect for personal gain. But it's indeed a twisted version of "charity" that involves using someone else's money. The guy that puts $10 in the Salvation Army kettle has earned far more points in my book than the anguished activist who cries out day and night for higher taxes for the benefit of the poor.

Taxes aren't charity.

They're the cost of living in a civil, industrialized society.

I don't want to pay private companies to put out fires in my town or hire private security forces. Or turn all roads into private property requiring several tolls to drive 10 miles.

Speaking of moving to another country, you can move to developing countries where tax rates are low and infrastructure is non-existent. Mexico has low marginal rates and not much in the way of decent public education, a vestige of the fact that in the New World, the US targeted universal literacy early on while most Latin American countries didn't bother.

It's not an accident that the US, with much higher literacy and level of education in the populace, has a diversified, industrialized economy while they still don't.

But that's okay, rich Latin Americans send their children to private schools (often in the US or Europe) since they get to keep more of their own money!

 

[Texas Proud]

Fourteen pages and counting.

I'd have thought we'd solved this by now...

I would have thought I would have seen a pig by now... glad that it has not happened...

 

[haha]

But that's okay, rich Latin Americans send their children to private schools (often in the US or Europe) since they get to keep more of their own money!

So do rich, or even many upper middle class Americans.

And while we are congratulating ourselves on literacy, we should likely admit that it is not very good, especially considering how much we spend on public education- highest in the world per student. There is almost no aspect of public services in which the US gets performance for all the money it throws at the problems.

 

[Independent]

One of the problems with a high cap gain tax is that it can be avoided... and when the rate is very high it is avoided...

You do NOT have to sell cap assets if you do not what to....

Believe me... I did a number of proformas for rich people back in the early 80s on how much a sale of something would cost them... almost all the time they decided to not sell...

So, raising the cap gain tax will not bring in much, if any, new revenue...

I'd say the correct word is "deferred". We currently allow step up in basis at death (one of those things that makes zero sense to me and should be changed), other than that, cap gains eventually get paid.

If this is a really big deal, it's possible to design systems for taxing unrealized gains.

 

[jdw_fire]

So do rich, or even many upper middle class Americans.

And while we are congratulating ourselves on literacy, we should likely admit that it is not very good, especially considering how much we spend on public education- highest in the world per student. There is almost no aspect of public services in which the US gets performance for all the money it throws at the problems.

are you thinking that our kids would be better educated if we got rid of public schools? i think not, i think a far fewer children would go to school if families were required to pay tuition for private schools.

so are you suggesting that we dont have any public services? that would really cut the government spending and then no tax increase would be needed. in fact tax cuts would be in order, atleast till some other country overruns us, since we will have no defense.

 

[jdw_fire]

I'd say the correct word is "deferred". We currently allow step up in basis at death (one of those things that makes zero sense to me and should be changed), other than that, cap gains eventually get paid.

well you can use a charitable remainder trust to get around ever paying the cap gains.

 

[Retch The Grate]

You might want to bone up on your facts there, Retch.

Pretended to be about lowering government expenditures and fiscal responsibility but instead oversaw incredible increases in federal expenditure and debt? Yeah, thanks I know what they did. They violated the core promise of the Republican party and put us into this debilitating debt situation that has ballooned to the point where we can't escape. The impressive thing about Bush the younger is that he did that after Clinton had things looking like we were actually going to pay off our national debt in a decade or two.

 

[REWahoo]

YouTube - Hoggie Man

 

[Westernskies]

YouTube - Hoggie Man

One 'o yer Texas neighbors, REW ?

 

[haha]

I concur. Taxes on Roth IRA's will creep in like a slow moving cancer and, as you say, will not be applied directly to withdrawals but will involve withdrawals counting as income for determining Medicare premiums, eligibility for deductions, etc. I dread this.

I agree with this, but there is a good chance that I may have no need for withdrawals from my Roth- but it will still be there compounding tax free, and If I do need it it will be because my other sources are down and hence I have at least a shot at staying below the level of confiscation.

Ha

 

[Westernskies]

I agree with this, but there is a good chance that I may have no need for withdrawals from my Roth- but it will still be there compounding tax free, and If I do need it it will be because my other sources are down and hence I have at least a shot at staying below the level of confiscation.

Ha

Sounds good, ha, but unless you're living in a cardboard box (well, maybe one of those big fancy refrigerator boxes ) mandated means testing will catch you in the confiscation net.

 

[missionfinder]

Missionfinder, you seem not to grasp the concept of spending OPM "Other Peoples Money"; the mission statement of the HTFC " higher tax fan club".

It's easy to be sanctimonius when it's not your money....

Yeah, Milton Friedman (great book, BTW):

YouTube - Milton Friedman - Other People's Money

YouTube - The 4 Ways to Spend Money by Milton Friedman

 

[ERD50]

... had things looking like we were actually going to pay off our national debt in a decade or two.

Yep, if only that bubble could have kept going for another decade or two! Hard to imagine that, and imagine the pop when that sucker burst! I'd expect the real fire and brimstone stuff, biblical proportions, cats and dogs sleeping together...

-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

The impressive thing about Bush the younger is that he did that after Clinton had things looking like we were actually going to pay off our national debt in a decade or two.

I remember the Clinton plan, paying off the debt was based upon the stock market returning 12% a year or some astronomical number like that...looks like Clinton was a little off.........

 

[youbet]

are you thinking that our kids would be better educated if we got rid of public schools? i think not, i think a far fewer children would go to school if families were required to pay tuition for private schools.

Are you suggesting that private schools be banned by a "big brother" style government thats out to control our every thought?

 

[jdw_fire]

Are you suggesting that private schools be banned by a "big brother" style government thats out to control our every thought?

nope, where did u get that? i didnt even come close to saying that. talk about someone twisting my words, wow.

 

[youbet]

nope, where did u get that? i didnt even come close to saying that. talk about someone twisting my words, wow.

Just a little turn around! (Ref your post #281) where what you did was "wow-wow-wow."

 

[jdw_fire]

Just a little turn around! (Ref your post #281) where what you did was "wow-wow-wow."

what are you talking about? did you even read what ha wrote?

And while we are congratulating ourselves on literacy, we should likely admit that it is not very good, especially considering how much we spend on public education- highest in the world per student. There is almost no aspect of public services in which the US gets performance for all the money it throws at the problems.

it sure looked to me like he was slamming public schools, as well as anything funded by the government. as such i think my questions to him were appropriate.

if you or ha (or anyone) have a suggestion for improving the performance we get from public services by all means speak up, but not paying for them or running up the national debt cus you dont wanna collect the taxes necessary to pay for them isnt the solution.

 

[youbet]

what are you talking about?

I was simply asking you whether you wanted private schools to be banned because they aren't funded by tax dollars and therefore are somewhat less subject to strict government control of academic content, religious content, political views, etc. I was asking because of the postition you were taking.

Remember, if we slam the doors on private schools, taxes collected for education don't increase. The folks with children at the private schools are already paying for the public schools as well. When the troops are sent in to nail the doors shut on private schools, the local public schools will have to accomodate the influx of students with no additional revenue. That won't be a good thing.

 

[jdw_fire]

I was simply asking you whether you wanted private schools to be banned because they aren't funded by tax dollars and therefore are somewhat less subject to strict government control of academic content, religious content, political views, etc. I was asking because of the postition you were taking.

what "position" am i taking? the position that i dont want big deficits? that i want us to pay for the government we want (or have chosen to have)? how do you jump to thinking i dont want private schools from that? just cus i dont want public schools to go away? that is a pretty big (falacious) assumption! i never said anything about closing private schools!

 

[youbet]

what "position" am i taking? the position that i dont want big deficits? that i want us to pay for the government we want (or have chosen to have)? how do you jump to thinking i dont want private schools from that? just cus i dont want public schools to go away? that is a pretty big (falacious) assumption! i never said anything about closing private schools!

So, do you want private schools banned or not? Personally, even though I had to gut it out in the Chicago Public School system from K to 12, I think it would be a mistake to get rid of private schools. We just need to keep working on improving the public schools to where their performance is commensurate with their current cost.

 

[jdw_fire]

So, do you want private schools banned or not?

NO! i do not want private schools banned, those are your words not mine! like i said i never said anything about banning private schools. where did you come up with that?

 

[youbet]

NO! i do not want private schools banned

Good decision. We agree then.

 

[jdw_fire]

Good decision. We agree then.

how bout you answering my question

NO! i do not want private schools banned, those are your words not mine! like i said i never said anything about banning private schools. where did you come up with that?

what you did in these last few post is what is disappointing about some of the people on this board. you appear to jump to conclusions about someone elses thoughts without any good reason. if you were to do that out in the "real" world it would be slander. and yet you dont seem to feel at all bad about totally misrepresenting my views.