Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-30-2010, 11:32 AM   #61
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
I think we have a workable compromise here. We soak the he|| out of the truly rich (those able to pay 7 figures in tax) and leave the poor old middling rich alone (defined as those currently only paying low six figures in tax).
Yep, screw the bourgeoisie billionaires and leave the common millionaires alone...
__________________

__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-30-2010, 11:43 AM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,445
"Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree!" - Russel Long, former US Senator.
__________________

__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:03 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Yep, screw the bourgeoisie billionaires and leave the common millionaires alone...
I guess technically we aren't screwing them. They should just continue feeling lucky that "we" have decided to allow them to keep most of their largesse. After all, once you have enough, anything above that can be shared with those in greater need.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:27 PM   #64
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 428
From Taxfoundation.org


March 30, 2006
Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million

by Scott A. Hodge

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html
__________________
Disappointed is offline  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:33 PM   #65
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Uh, oh....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg thats almost all folks.jpg (19.8 KB, 0 views)
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:33 PM   #66
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disappointed View Post
From Taxfoundation.org, I can't seem to get the whole article to post properly, perhaps somebody can help.
Maybe delete the quote and post a link only...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline  
Old 12-30-2010, 02:05 PM   #67
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disappointed View Post
From Taxfoundation.org, I can't seem to get the whole article to post properly, perhaps somebody can help.
It is against the Community Rules to post an entire article. Please post the link, or PM me with the link and I'll edit your post.

Quote:
Do not post protected / copyrighted content:
Information copyrighted or owned by any individual or entity other than the member should not be posted without the consent of the owner. Copyrighted material includes images and text produced and owned by others. If such an event occurs, the individual posting the information shall be held solely responsible. You cannot legally post entire articles or news in the forum without permission from the copyright holder. Even if you attribute the article correctly it’s still copyright infringement. Under Fair Use provisions you can legally post a small abstract of an article - or perhaps the opening paragraph. The exception to this rule is press releases; they are meant for distribution and can be copied and distributed. If you are not sure if you can copy something then always err on the side of caution and simply post a link to the material.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:54 AM   #68
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Alan, I think you may have misinterpreted my question. The "Why" was intended as "WHY are some folks financially better off than others?" I maintain it is primarily due to making better choices, financial and lifestyle sacrifices, taking some risks, and and working your tail off. Does luck have something to do with it? Perhaps, but it's hard to quantify "luck" as a taxable entity, but in my experience, the harder I worked the "luckier" I seemed to get. We've flogged the luck horse to death in other threads, so I won't belabor it here.
I would like to add to your discussion of "Why" some people end up financially better than others that your "Luck" may just have been the fact that you were born a male. What about the income gap between men and women? I work just as hard...probably harder than my male counterparts, but I know the goatee club exists and most the people in the front offices are men.

As far as paying taxes goes....I like roads, firemen, police officers, our troops. Let's not forget that this money does go to many services that tend to be taken for granted when complaining about taxes. I think someone above equated it to someone robbing them at gun point....you may want to rethink that statement.
__________________
lilly is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:22 AM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
I've always told anyone who was willing to listen that I'd be REALLY HAPPY if I could just pay a billion in income tax. Granted that taxes are higher here in the Frozen North, but I think I could live OK on the rest.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 08:49 AM   #70
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,435
This thread has gone a bit off track. My point was that for me, it was not that long ago that my income was close to my total tax bill now (though filing married distorts things compared to when I was single) and it just seems strange to be in a different position now. I wasn't crying crocodile tears over the taxes I will pay nor grousing that they are too high.
__________________
soupcxan is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:47 PM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,158
I suspect the productive and interesting portion of his thread has ended for me. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
__________________
Danmar is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 01:10 PM   #72
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilly View Post
I would like to add to your discussion of "Why" some people end up financially better than others that your "Luck" may just have been the fact that you were born a male. What about the income gap between men and women? I work just as hard...probably harder than my male counterparts, but I know the goatee club exists and most the people in the front offices are men.

As far as paying taxes goes....I like roads, firemen, police officers, our troops. Let's not forget that this money does go to many services that tend to be taken for granted when complaining about taxes. I think someone above equated it to someone robbing them at gun point....you may want to rethink that statement.
So, if you have a goatee, you should be in a higher tax bracket HFWR, Johnny36, and haha (among others) aren't going to like that...

Besides, we all pay (gender-neutral) taxes to support the EEOC.

As far as paying taxes goes, I drive on the same roads and sleep under the same mantle of protection that you do- I understand and support the need for taxes in a civilized society- but should I be targeted to pay more for the same services?

I don't believe I equated paying taxes to being robbed at gunpoint- if you are going to make reference in a quote, please attribute it to the proper source.
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 01:55 PM   #73
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Well, almost...

I still think that everyone needs some skin in the game; otherwise you foster the entitlement mentality that seems to be growing in this country.
But in principle, I would support the notion of a system that required a very minimal tax rate for those earning below a certain threshold; any earnings over the threshold amount would be taxed at the same flat rate, regardless of how far over. Also, eliminate thousands of pages of tax code, close loopholes, and "incentify" people to save for their long-term financial security.



I see just as much of the so called entitlement mentality from the well off as the poor. They may want lower taxes. They may think that they are entitled to it because they work hard and made the money. The feel like it is their money. They feel entitled.

Private property is a creation of society. It isn't some kind of God given right. Many early societies did not have that concept at all. The money you earned is only yours because society has decided that it is yours. And society places conditions on that ownership. It may decide that those who have more must contribute more. And at a higher percentage than those with less.

We all have some aspect of an entitlement mentality. This isn't all bad. We should expect good things from our society and push for those things. But I seriously question that any particular class in the US has more of an entitlement mentality than any other.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:02 PM   #74
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan View Post
This thread has gone a bit off track. My point was that for me, it was not that long ago that my income was close to my total tax bill now (though filing married distorts things compared to when I was single) and it just seems strange to be in a different position now. I wasn't crying crocodile tears over the taxes I will pay nor grousing that they are too high.
I just contributed to the off track discussion. Congratulations on a good year!
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:13 PM   #75
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
kyounge1956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan View Post
This thread has gone a bit off track. My point was that for me, it was not that long ago that my income was close to my total tax bill now (though filing married distorts things compared to when I was single) and it just seems strange to be in a different position now. I wasn't crying crocodile tears over the taxes I will pay nor grousing that they are too high.
I appear to have misunderstood you then. I too would find it strange to be paying as much in taxes a few years hence than my total income of today.

My apologies
__________________
kyounge1956 is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:15 PM   #76
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
Private property is a creation of society.
Not sure I follow you on this one Martha (not surprising ) but this is one of the fundamental areas where we differ: US Constitution, Fifth Amendment:..nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. I believe that this was enacted to protect private property rights from the whims of society, and those who would subrogate private property rights for the "greater good of society" in the name of(insert favorite cause here)without due process or compensation.

I'll admit that the Constitution isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than what we're using now.
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:17 PM   #77
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
I just contributed to the off track discussion.
...like a moth drawn to a flame.
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:23 PM   #78
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernskies View Post
Not sure I follow you on this one Martha (not surprising ) but this is one of the fundamental areas where we differ: US Constitution, Fifth Amendment:..nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. I believe that this was enacted to protect private property rights from the whims of society, and those who would subrogate private property rights for the "greater good of society" in the name of(insert favorite cause here)without due process or compensation.

I'll admit that the Constitution isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than what we're using now.
I'm sure you will find great comfort in reading the Constitution while riding in the tumbrel to your meeting with Madame Defarge.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is online now  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:30 PM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I'm sure you will find great comfort in reading the Constitution while riding in the tumbrel to your meeting with Madame Defarge.
"Give it to us now, or off with your head!"

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:49 PM   #80
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
"Give it to us, or off with your head!"

Ha
My intention was to illustrate Martha's point -- our Constitution and the laws that flow from it represent a mutual agreement among the people as to the operative principles by which our society will function. But it's just that - an agreement, not an ineluctable law of physics. We have the concept of private property solely because we, as a people, agreed to have that concept. That agreement is subject to change, as has occurred at many times and places around the world. Thus, if everyone else in my town suddenly decides that my house is not my private property and they show up on my front doorstep with rifles to take it, then it's not my private property. Waving a copy of the Constitution at them won't change that reality.

Obviously, I prefer to live in a land governed by laws that are predictable and fair, but I never forget that, underneath it all, I hold my private property at the sufferance of my neighbors who have agreed to respect it as such. And, as Martha pointed out, they can condition that respect. In fact, this latent threat already exists in the form of real property tax. Every year I must pay around $10k in tax or the town -- my neighbors -- will take it from me.
__________________

__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is online now  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seeking tax planning tips for 2010 - DINKs w/ $250k income soupcxan FIRE and Money 16 03-28-2010 06:05 PM
Tax question - Capital loss exceeds income -> no carryover? SecondCor521 FIRE and Money 9 02-15-2010 10:30 AM
Poll: Average Income Before FIRE PsyopRanger FIRE and Money 63 01-27-2007 11:01 AM
GDP and average income per capita Sam Other topics 19 11-02-2006 12:14 PM
Real World FIRE Income Poll, Average Monthly Draw ShokWaveRider FIRE and Money 14 09-12-2006 11:50 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:50 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.