Nigel Farage(UK Independence Party) on Euro Problems

[haha]

Nigel Farage throws egg in Eurocrat faces:

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Nigel Farage throws egg in Eurocrat faces:

UKIP are a joke party and obviously have an anti-Europe axe to grind.

[Alan]

and what exactly has this to do with the price of eggs?

[Leonidas]

I saw that video last week and enjoyed it enough to read up on the man a bit. He gave an interview for a book he has written and I thought this quote says a lot about his motivations: “I did not enter politics out of philanthropy but rather as an extension of my own annoyance at having inherited freedoms infringed by power-crazed idiots”.

There are some other videos out there on speeches he has given in the EU parliament in which he says that the whole Euro-Government is all about bureaucracy over democracy.

[Tigger]

He's obviously gifted as a speaker and a humorist, but he's not doing much constructive work.

As his party's "primary policy is the withdrawal of the UK from the European Union" (source: Wikipedia), he's not trying to improve the EU, he's just in the business of attacking and ridiculising it. His re-election depends on being utterly and completely anti-EU. Therefore you'll never hear anything euro-positive out of his mouth.

This is a pity because every organisation needs critics and criticism isn't always unwarranted, but he's a bit like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking him seriously.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigger He's obviously gifted as a speaker and a humorist, but he's not doing much constructive work. As his party's "primary policy is the withdrawal of the UK from the European Union" (source: Wikipedia), he's not trying to improve the EU, he's just in the business of attacking and ridiculising it. His re-election depends on being utterly and completely anti-EU. Therefore you'll never hear anything euro-positive out of his mouth. This is a pity because every organisation needs critics and criticism isn't always unwarranted, but he's a bit like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking him seriously.

Not really true. More and more people realize that the Euro might have been a collossal mistake, and Britain staying out a stroke of rare genius and political courage.

You can bet that the German man and woman in the street would dearly love to have their D-marks back! The plan was EU as a step to Euro- but some countries wisely stopped along the way.

Ha

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Not really true. More and more people realize that the Euro might have been a collossal mistake, and Britain staying out a stroke of rare genius and political courage. You can bet that the German man and woman in the street would dearly love to have their D-marks back! The plan was EU as a step to Euro- but some countries wisely stopped along the way. Ha

There is a very big difference between the Euro Zone and the European Union. Only a subset of EU countries are in the Euro Zone.

Britain is very much a part of the European Union, with European MP's, follows European Parliment directives, trading and working agreements etc. The UKIP wants out of all that which isn't going to happen.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan There is a very big difference between the Euro Zone and the European Union. Only a subset of EU countries are in the Euro Zone. Britain is very much a part of the European Union, with European MP's, follows European Parliment directives, trading and working agreements etc. The UKIP wants out of all that which isn't going to happen.

I am sorry if my post gave the wrong impression.

I have followed European integration efforts for a very long time- I wrote a thesis on the Coal and Steel Community.

I believe that Nigel is opposed to transnational entities usurping the powers and freedoms formerly owned by the nation states.

I believe that the Euro, while a separate consideration, is one of the most important ways that adopter countries have given up sovreignity and also the issue most likely to cause large strains among the current currency union members.

Creating a large common market has certainly had huge benefits, but also large costs. Naturally different factions have differing views on the net balance of gains and losses. Many see the Union as a stepping stone to Euro adoption, in fact I believe that this was part of the original conception. It is certainly not clear to me that the EU member countries that have not adopted the Euro are any the worse off, and they have been able to retain sovereignity in at least one important area. Of course many of the adopter countries didn't amount to much anyway.

I do think that the German everyman is very disappointed to have given up his D-Mark, while the politicians are very happy to have so much more power.

Returning to the EU, 2 prominent and highly successful non-joiners are Switzerland and Norway. They don't seem to suffer unduly from not being members.

And of course there is the issue of Turkey... formerly seen as the next big addition.

Ha

[Leonidas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I do think that the German everyman is very disappointed to have given up his D-Mark, while the politicians are very happy to have so much more power.

I wonder how long before Hans Everyman gets tired of seeing his hard earned savings going out the door to shore up the economies of places like Greece, Ireland, and maybe Portugal, Spain....etc. How long before Hans says "Nein!" and wants his D-Marks back. Or will we there be Northern Euros and Southern Euros?

[BigNick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I believe that Nigel is opposed to transnational entities usurping the powers and freedoms formerly owned by the nation states.

I believe that Nigel is what we scientists call "a complete and utter wanker".

I have had the misfortune to be sitting at the next table in a restaurant while he regaled everyone with stories of how clever he is.

In reality, he is extremely rude. Much of his discourse relies on ad hominem attacks. He leads a party of climate change deniers, the majority of whose voters are the worst kind of borderline racists the UK has to offer (the non-borderline racists vote for the BNP).

Quote:

I wonder how long before Hans Everyman gets tired of seeing his hard earned savings going out the door to shore up the economies of places like Greece, Ireland, and maybe Portugal, Spain....etc. How long before Hans says "Nein!" and wants his D-Marks back. Or will we there be Northern Euros and Southern Euros?

Ireland and Greece are tiny, and the money from the EU is a loan, not a gift. The average German is way less exposed to bailout money than the average Brit or American. The Euro's problem right now is that it is too strong - a bit of weakness would help Germany's exports. And despite all that, German business confidence is at its highest level since the Berlin Wall came down.

In other words, it's all a bit more complicated than that.

[Tigger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I have followed European integration efforts for a very long time- I wrote a thesis on the Coal and Steel Community.

That qualifies as a long time indeed! Repect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I believe that the Euro, while a separate consideration, is one of the most important ways that adopter countries have given up sovreignity

I agree that controlling your own currency does have significant advantages. Having your own currency, setting your own rates and being able to inflate the hell out of it are big advantages.

On the other hand, in a European context, doing business with UK companies is a hassle and is expensive. Fluctuating rates complicate everything and mean fluctuating prices and foreign exchange expenses.

Just imagine the hassle if every state in the US had its own currency. You'd constantly pay the spread and maybe fees if you wanted to shop outside of your state. Comparing prices would be a major pain in the backside.
(I'm aware that comparing a country like the US with a union like the EU is like comparing apples and oranges, but still...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I do think that the German everyman is very disappointed to have given up his D-Mark

But imagine, if Germany would leave the euro, then their currency would quickly become very expensive. The German economy can actually export a lot because the euro is cheap. I've read an article that even suggested that the Germans might have lost time on purpose before bailing out the Greeks, in order to make the currency cheaper as a way to stimulate the German economy - a de facto devaluation without getting blamed for devaluing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha 2 prominent and highly successful non-joiners are Switzerland and Norway. They don't seem to suffer unduly from not being members.

Maybe, but the UK has its own problems and might sooner or later need help. By not joining the euro the British effectively ensured that they would be on their own if it would come to that.

[haha]

Interesting observations Tigger. Thank you.

(Btw I was not of thesis writing age during the early 50s-this was look back. I was then a Socialist. )

Ha

[Tigger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Interesting observations Tigger. Thank you.

You're welcome. Just don't take me too serious, there are gaping holes in my knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha (Btw I was not of thesis writing age during the early 50s-this was look back.

Ah, so the handsome man on your pictures isn't a stand-in after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I was then a Socialist. )

Well, pobody's nerfect.

[BigNick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Returning to the EU, 2 prominent and highly successful non-joiners are Switzerland and Norway. They don't seem to suffer unduly from not being members.

My day job allows me to talk to people in the political arena from a large number of European countries. A substantial majority of these people, in both countries which you mentioned, think that they would be better off in rather than out, because right now they have to follow a very large amount of EU policy de facto without being round the table to influence it.

Countries on the periphery also benefit substantially from the side-effects of the EU such as the absence of wars between its members. There hasn't been a period of history this long without a pitched battle somewhere within the triangle Amsterdam-Paris-Frankfurt in the last 1,000 years. The entire cumulative budget of the EU over the last and next 60 years doesn't come close to what a war between two of its member states would cost. We've all discounted that, just as Americans have discounted the benefits of joining up the colonies to make one country, something else which had its Nigel Farages opposing it 200 years ago.

[nun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Interesting observations Tigger. Thank you. (Btw I was not of thesis writing age during the early 50s-this was look back. I was then a Socialist. ) Ha

The "Steel and Coal Community", ah that takes me back, I'm just old enough to remember that....The Euro is a natural outcome of a large market that started with different currencies, I don't think it was part of the original thinking behind European integration, that was more to do with the hang over from WWII and wanting to avoid military conflict by greater economic cooperation. The biggest issue is the diversity of the economies in the Euro and the need to employ different monetary policies in each nation that is now impossible with a single currency.

It's nice to see a socialist on here, even a lapsed one. I was a socialist back then and I'm still a socialist....but with libertarian tendancies when it comes to freedom of expression. I believe in progressive taxation for the common good and Clause 4 (workers owning the means of production), but don't tell me what to think or say!