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Old 02-26-2009, 04:47 PM   #21
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Puh-leeze. "the biggest turn left since FDR" I guess you forgot Nixon's wage and price controls and Reagan's Earned Income Tax Credit.

The current operative meme on the Right seems to be to kill Social Security. The banksters HATE Social Security because it is a slice of wealth that they cannot get their hands on. It is outside their system.

GWB and certain Republicans, most lately Eric Cantor and his ex-Goldman Sachs VP wife, want the banksters to "manage" that money. Do not let them pull the wool over your eyes.

If you feel like Soc.Sec. is giving you too much please donate it to the charity of your choice. Otherwise I cannot think of a worse thing to dismantle in times like these. For what? So that people can take the money and go back to spending on cars and houses they don't need? With the R-proposed $15k house tax credit??

Every one of the Powers That Be wants to go back to the status quo ante of market borrowing and spending. If that won't happen, they will try to force it to happen. This is beyond left and right.. they all want to restart the debt machine. They will force private borrowing and when that is exhausted they will force gov. borrowing. It doesn't matter whether it is for wars or trains or houses.. the important thing is to grow the aggregate debt.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:12 PM   #22
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Puh-leeze. "the biggest turn left since FDR" I guess you forgot Nixon's wage and price controls and Reagan's Earned Income Tax Credit.

The current operative meme on the Right seems to be to kill Social Security. The banksters HATE Social Security because it is a slice of wealth that they cannot get their hands on. It is outside their system.

GWB and certain Republicans, most lately Eric Cantor and his ex-Goldman Sachs VP wife, want the banksters to "manage" that money. Do not let them pull the wool over your eyes.

If you feel like Soc.Sec. is giving you too much please donate it to the charity of your choice. Otherwise I cannot think of a worse thing to dismantle in times like these. For what? So that people can take the money and go back to spending on cars and houses they don't need? With the R-proposed $15k house tax credit??

Every one of the Powers That Be wants to go back to the status quo ante of market borrowing and spending. If that won't happen, they will try to force it to happen. This is beyond left and right.. they all want to restart the debt machine. They will force private borrowing and when that is exhausted they will force gov. borrowing. It doesn't matter whether it is for wars or trains or houses.. the important thing is to grow the aggregate debt.
Delfina, welcome back. I have missed your well reasoned, lucid presentations. In case you are referring to me above with the "you", I didn't say anything about social security. Others may be discussing that, so perhaps you should set them straight instead?

BTW Mods, I take it all back. Your partial ban on political discussion is badly needed. I won't post any more annoying threads like this one. I was just mad about my ISM/ OSM getting smashed on the shoals.

Sorry.

Ha
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:24 PM   #23
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If you feel like Soc.Sec. is giving you too much please donate it to the charity of your choice.
I was not given the choice of not paying into it. So yes, I will take every penny out of it I can legally get. What I question is WHY the govt administers it as they do.

Since my personal ROI would likely be higher than what the govt is offering someone like me who maxed out many years, I'd have more money to donate to charity. It can be a win-win.

-ERD50
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:31 PM   #24
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You're right, ha. None of what I have to say has anything to do with retirement or retiring early. I did not mean to lump you and ERD together and I'm sorry if you took it that way.

No one appears really interested in the underlying mechanics of what is occurring but I'll respect your cone of silence if you prefer and wish you the best. Auguri.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:51 PM   #25
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If you feel like Soc.Sec. is giving you too much please donate it to the charity of your choice.
In all fairness, though, wouldn't that also apply to folks in Hollywood and elsewhere who push the higher tax agenda on the wealthy? Doesn't that apply to Warren Buffett, a Democrat who has repeatedly written about the unfairness of the tax code? If they feel like taxes are too low and they can afford it, why don't they all write checks to the Treasury?
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:57 PM   #26
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Otherwise I cannot think of a worse thing to dismantle in times like these. For what?
I never indicated that I thought it "should be dismantled in times like these". Where do you get that from?

Breaking promises to those who played by the rules of the game would be disruptive and wrong. However, I think that going forward SS should be completely restructured. I recall posting on this a while back, and no one could succinctly describe just what SS is supposed to do. You can't plan to reach a goal unless you first define it.

That's the problem with most govt programs IMO, they don't really say what the goal is, and they provide no way to measure the results. They just "do something". And it is often counter-productive to some other "do something" program.

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Old 02-26-2009, 06:35 PM   #27
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Puh-leeze. "the biggest turn left since FDR" I guess you forgot Nixon's wage and price controls and Reagan's Earned Income Tax Credit.

The current operative meme on the Right seems to be to kill Social Security. The banksters HATE Social Security because it is a slice of wealth that they cannot get their hands on. It is outside their system.

GWB and certain Republicans, most lately Eric Cantor and his ex-Goldman Sachs VP wife, want the banksters to "manage" that money. Do not let them pull the wool over your eyes.

If you feel like Soc.Sec. is giving you too much please donate it to the charity of your choice. Otherwise I cannot think of a worse thing to dismantle in times like these. For what? So that people can take the money and go back to spending on cars and houses they don't need? With the R-proposed $15k house tax credit??

Every one of the Powers That Be wants to go back to the status quo ante of market borrowing and spending. If that won't happen, they will try to force it to happen. This is beyond left and right.. they all want to restart the debt machine. They will force private borrowing and when that is exhausted they will force gov. borrowing. It doesn't matter whether it is for wars or trains or houses.. the important thing is to grow the aggregate debt.
Ladelfina - you're back I missed ya!
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:05 PM   #28
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[quote=ERD50;788760]I've heard some "talking heads" mention recently that the FDR programs extended the depression rather than help.

I'm not sure it can be measured with any reasonable degree of certainty one way or the other. Maybe someone can help with a reliable reference on this?

Thought this was talked about a few weeks ago on one of the forums. Someone mentioned that FDR was so good that he made sure the depression lasted through his four terms of office. True or not, I think history shows he was the right man, at the right time for the job. Who could have done it better? I can remember my Mother hugging me while crying the day he died.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:07 PM   #29
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Perhaps we should have a special tax for expatriate Americans for not sharing-the-wealth by "buying American" & paying sales taxes in the US?
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:38 PM   #30
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Who could have done it better?
Wendell Wilkie?
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:39 AM   #31
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Wendell Wilkie?


Oops, I seem to have wondered into the mosh pit...

I think Obama is trying to jumpstart the capitulation! Yeah, that's it...
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:57 AM   #32
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that political trends are not the most important issues facing retirees and investors today.

Ha
You really lost control of this thread.

I'm not sure if what is going on now is similar to what was going on during the election - so maybe discussions will not be as heated. Also there really isn't any opposition to speak about.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:38 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ladelfina View Post

GWB and certain Republicans, most lately Eric Cantor and his ex-Goldman Sachs VP wife, want the banksters to "manage" that money. Do not let them pull the wool over your eyes.

If you feel like Soc.Sec. is giving you too much please donate it to the charity of your choice. Otherwise I cannot think of a worse thing to dismantle in times like these. For what? So that people can take the money and go back to spending on cars and houses they don't need? With the R-proposed $15k house tax credit??

Wow, back with the namecalling.......the Soapbox is dead, didn't you get the memo??
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:53 AM   #34
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In my view, unless Obama and the Dem-controlled Congress manage to pull a wabbit out of a hat, the pendulum will swing back the other way, probably by the next POTUS election, if not the next Congressional election.

Face it, after eight years of RINO rule, many were ready for the pendulum to swing the other way. Add to that the relative unpopularity of the previous administration, and the, IMHO, lackluster ticket the Repubs ran in 2008, and the Dems were almost sure to win.

Interesting note: according to McCain's daughter, the Repubs need to better utilize the internet, and other new technology. IOW, don't improve the ticket, or the policies, just improve the marketing. Shades of Karl Rove... Besides, sound bites are more effective than exploring the nuances of politics, economics, etc., given the attention span, or lack thereof, of the American electorate.

Despite the conservative bent in Texas, I still hear many who think they're "conservative" calling for heads to roll and controls to be placed on executive compensation, the antithesis of conservatism and free-market capitalism. The reason we have a representative democracy is to damper populism, and the "tyranny of the majority". But it's much more fun to yell and scream, and maybe have a "Santelli Tea Party", than to carefully deliberate. And politicans are too busy kissing the assets of lobbyists and campaign contributors to seriously deliberate anything anyway...
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:59 AM   #35
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And politicans are too busy kissing the assets of lobbyists and campaign contributors to seriously deliberate anything anyway...
Well, I am praying that they are about to lay some big wet ones on Sallie's boys and girls.

I am all for quality government, except when a little greed and business as usual might help me.

Ha
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:05 PM   #36
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In my view, unless Obama and the Dem-controlled Congress manage to pull a wabbit out of a hat, the pendulum will swing back the other way, probably by the next POTUS election, if not the next Congressional election.

Face it, after eight years of RINO rule, many were ready for the pendulum to swing the other way. Add to that the relative unpopularity of the previous administration, and the, IMHO, lackluster ticket the Repubs ran in 2008, and the Dems were almost sure to win.

Interesting note: according to McCain's daughter, the Repubs need to better utilize the internet, and other new technology. IOW, don't improve the ticket, or the policies, just improve the marketing. Shades of Karl Rove... Besides, sound bites are more effective than exploring the nuances of politics, economics, etc., given the attention span, or lack thereof, of the American electorate.

Despite the conservative bent in Texas, I still hear many who think they're "conservative" calling for heads to roll and controls to be placed on executive compensation, the antithesis of conservatism and free-market capitalism. The reason we have a representative democracy is to damper populism, and the "tyranny of the majority". But it's much more fun to yell and scream, and maybe have a "Santelli Tea Party", than to carefully deliberate. And politicans are too busy kissing the assets of lobbyists and campaign contributors to seriously deliberate anything anyway...
I find it breathtaking that we moved from capitalism to socialism in less than 60 days.........I must be the only one that thinks that.........
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:16 PM   #37
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I find it breathtaking that we moved from capitalism to socialism in less than 60 days.........I must be the only one that thinks that.........
A lot of pent-up demand?

I would argue that we were already headed down that road, just in a more "disguised" way...
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:41 PM   #38
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I find it breathtaking that we moved from capitalism to socialism in less than 60 days.........I must be the only one that thinks that.........
I predicted it, based on the pres. elect's past history and activities. Except I said that in two years we will know. The speed of it boggles my mind.

Not wanting to link soap box material directly, it is easy enough to find in my postings.

Mercifully neither downturn nor the quasi nationalization of banks, has effected my and DW's standard of living in retirement, which was never near our means, yet quiet comfortable. Pre or post retirement. Oh, and having the house fully paid for sure makes thing a lot easier.

Figure by July there should be sufficient pain for the general population to re-asses the change that came, and the change to alleviate the pain.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:28 PM   #39
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I predicted it, based on the pres. elect's past history and activities. Except I said that in two years we will know. The speed of it boggles my mind.

Not wanting to link soap box material directly, it is easy enough to find in my postings.

Mercifully neither downturn nor the quasi nationalization of banks, has effected my and DW's standard of living in retirement, which was never near our means, yet quiet comfortable. Pre or post retirement. Oh, and having the house fully paid for sure makes thing a lot easier.

Figure by July there should be sufficient pain for the general population to re-asses the change that came, and the change to alleviate the pain.
A lot of people I know that voted for Obama have expressed to me that they are absolutely shocked about what has occurred. It seems to me that he is doing what he said he would do and what is completely consistent with having been the most liberal member of the US Senate (and that's really saying something).
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:22 PM   #40
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A lot of people I know that voted for Obama have expressed to me that they are absolutely shocked about what has occurred. It seems to me that he is doing what he said he would do and what is completely consistent with having been the most liberal member of the US Senate (and that's really saying something).
I am not shocked by Obama's proposed budget and the changes to tax policy. Reading between the lines of his campaign proposals it was clear to me that his call for "shared sacrifice" meant that the Bush tax cuts were kaput and that other kinds of tax deductions would be phased out. There is no other way to fund a national health insurance policy,
which will directly benefit retirees BTW.

Also, I believe that Obama's specific comments on "unsustainable" deficits and entitlement reforms means that more tax policy changes are coming down the road. Don't be surprised that those making over 250K in retirement will be paying more taxes on their social security and medicare benefits. It's the only way the the entitlement system is sustainable in the long term.

And, for retirees, this economic plan has got to work. We cannot fall into a deep depression. If that happens, then retirees of modest means will be in severe jeopardy. I don't want to see that happen. And if that means that we need to impose higher taxes on those making over 250K then so be it.
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