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Old 02-12-2009, 04:41 PM   #21
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I've never come across clear numbers about the extent of oil industry subsidies (and I'd prefer to exclude military costs, unless they are directly and unquestionably related to oil, just to avoid that whole issue). Anyone got a good link?

-ERD50
This is to 2000. It doesn't include the $18B in recent years (did Congress take it back?) or loan guarantees and risk insurance to the tune of ~$16B for coal-to-gas plants and nuclear cost overruns. Etc.


www.gao.gov/new.items/rc00301r.pdf
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:48 PM   #22
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And just think, if we didn't subsidize oil, maybe we wouldn't need subsidies on alternative energy. Funny how the "answer" never involves removing anything, it is always to add another thing to counter-act it.

-ERD50
I'd think the best subsidy would be allowing everyone to keep more of their money so that if gas costs 7% of your income now plus whatever you actually buy you'll have an extra 7% to buy that gas or use some alternative on a level playing field.

What happens if they decide to subsidize wind and solar along with gas but then someone figures out how to use a cup of coffee grounds to power the whole country? It's never going to be adopted because not only does it have to be cheaper than everything else, it has to be cheaper than the subsidized price and the price to replace the infrastructure and build new facilities.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:12 PM   #23
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What happens if they decide to subsidize wind and solar along with gas but then someone figures out how to use a cup of coffee grounds to power the whole country? It's never going to be adopted because not only does it have to be cheaper than everything else, it has to be cheaper than the subsidized price and the price to replace the infrastructure and build new facilities.
Exactly.

And this was an issue for the guy that was working on the "Anything into Oil" plant (he was turning turkey slaughter waste into oil). While that may or may not be worthwhile, it was not just pseudo-science hokum, it was based on sound chemistry, he has some prototype plants up and running (google it for the details).

But the real interesting point was, there was some $1/gallon govt subsidy for biofuels, but his process did not fit the legal definition. So he was under a $1/gallon "penalty" right from the start. That just makes no sense - how are we supposed to get the best solutions when Congress has already pre-ordained the "answers" through their micro-management of tax codes?

He did manage to get the laws changed, but it impacted his ability to get financing until that happened. What good comes from that?

This is why the people are getting so skeptical of the "Economic Stimulus" bill, they are seeing how the more govt gets involved, the more they create unintended consequences that hurt us.

-ERD50
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