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Old 02-23-2009, 11:35 AM   #41
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To be fair, Letj probably realizes that one person sending in a big check isn't going to make any difference. She probably means that she'd be willing to pay more if all the richer people had to, and it would make a difference. So it's not hypocritical to say that you'd be willing to pay more taxes, yet not pay more individually.
It is ludicrous for someone to say that just because they would be willing to pay more taxes that I should, too. Anyone who feels they are not paying enough in taxes can make a voluntary contribution to the US Treasury toward reducing the national debt. Heck, why not just buy savings bonds and throw them away if you truly feel that way?
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:38 AM   #42
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It is ludicrous for someone to say that just because they would be willing to pay more taxes that I should, too. Anyone who feels thay are not paying enough in taxes can make a voluntary contribution to the US Treasury toward reducing the national debt. Heck, why not just buy savings bonds and throw them away if you truly feel that way?
Tragedy of the commons.

One person may not feel like they can make a difference by giving more money to the Treasury -- so they won't do it as an individual. But if they can be assured that many millions of others in the same financial situation would have to do the same, they'd be willing to do it.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:45 AM   #43
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Tragedy of the commons.

One person may not feel like they can make a difference by giving more money to the Treasury -- so they won't do it as an individual. But if they can be assured that many millions of others in the same financial situation would have to do the same, they'd be willing to do it.

But they say that "charity begins at home....."
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:54 AM   #44
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Tragedy of the commons.

One person may not feel like they can make a difference by giving more money to the Treasury -- so they won't do it as an individual. But if they can be assured that many millions of others in the same financial situation would have to do the same, they'd be willing to do it.
It would be easier for me to accept that if I saw some action behind it, something that would prove they are serious.

How come I don't see any blogs or organizations that are trying to raise money for the government? I envision one of those thermometers with a goal on it. "Raise $X Trillion by the end of the year! If you think taxes should be higher, contribute here and show the world that you are willing to put your money where your mouth is! We can do this, if we all just work together!"

I don't see any of those.

But other orgs do things like this, for stuff they believe in. I believe in conservation, and there are many sites I can go to for tips on how to lower my utility and gas bill. People donate to charities they believe in, the Red Cross, American Cancer Society, etc. When I donate the Heifer.org each year, I don't think " Hey, why am I doing this - not everybody does it, so what difference can I make?". No, I do it because I believe in it. Every dollar I contribute is another dollar that helps them, whether you chose to contribute or not. So why don't these people donate money to a cause they believe in?

Sorry, strikes me as disingenuous, to the point of hypocrisy.

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Old 02-23-2009, 11:56 AM   #45
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So if a state gets $2 billion in federal aid but its entities paid $5 billion in taxes for those aid programs, that state is getting screwed.
Welcome to Wisconsin.......this has been the plan our state govt has been running for 40 years.......
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:57 AM   #46
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Sorry, strikes me as disingenuous, to the point of hypocrisy.
I'm not defending the mentality -- just explaining it as I see it.

I would agree that I'd like to see some leadership by example amongst those who are the loudest about "sacrificing" more and "giving back more". Put your money where your mouths are and I might be more inclined to follow.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:14 PM   #47
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Feb. 21 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama plans to cut the U.S. budget deficit to $533 billion by the end of his first term by increasing taxes on the wealthy and cutting spending for the war in Iraq, according to an administration official.
Interesting........
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:48 PM   #48
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It would be easier for me to accept that if I saw some action behind it, something that would prove they are serious.

How come I don't see any blogs or organizations that are trying to raise money for the government? I envision one of those thermometers with a goal on it. "Raise $X Trillion by the end of the year! If you think taxes should be higher, contribute here and show the world that you are willing to put your money where your mouth is! We can do this, if we all just work together!"

I don't see any of those.

But other orgs do things like this, for stuff they believe in. I believe in conservation, and there are many sites I can go to for tips on how to lower my utility and gas bill. People donate to charities they believe in, the Red Cross, American Cancer Society, etc. When I donate the Heifer.org each year, I don't think " Hey, why am I doing this - not everybody does it, so what difference can I make?". No, I do it because I believe in it. Every dollar I contribute is another dollar that helps them, whether you chose to contribute or not. So why don't these people donate money to a cause they believe in?

Sorry, strikes me as disingenuous, to the point of hypocrisy.

-ERD50
I believe we don't see any of those because people need to feel in their heart of hearts that their dollars are making a difference. If I give to the Red Cross, I can see a disaster-stricken family getting needed medical care because I gave. I can see a donation to the Salvation Army helping someone who is homeless have a safe place to sleep for the night.

It's hard to imagine giving to a black hole of questionable bailouts and poorly managed programs. Or worse yet, a pork barrel project in Congressman Dodo's district (even if that district is mine)
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:37 PM   #49
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I'm not defending the mentality -- just explaining it as I see it.

I would agree that I'd like to see some leadership by example amongst those who are the loudest about "sacrificing" more and "giving back more". Put your money where your mouths are and I might be more inclined to follow.
We are in agreement on that front then.

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I believe we don't see any of those because people need to feel in their heart of hearts that their dollars are making a difference. If I give to the Red Cross, I can see a disaster-stricken family getting needed medical care because I gave. I can see a donation to the Salvation Army helping someone who is homeless have a safe place to sleep for the night.

It's hard to imagine giving to a black hole of questionable bailouts and poorly managed programs. Or worse yet, a pork barrel project in Congressman Dodo's district (even if that district is mine)
Yes, I thought about that aspect right after I posted. Which makes me think, maybe the govt should just do more to encourage charitable donations? Like maybe up to half your tax bill as a *credit* against taxes, rather than a deduction. The charities are going to spend it (stimulate the economy), and most seem to think more efficiently than the govt (or the govt would be our favorite "charity" that we voluntarily give to).

IIRC, they are changing it so you don't have to itemize to deduct charity contributions. If we are going to mess with that at all, I think that should be done.

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Old 02-23-2009, 10:09 PM   #50
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[quote=Letj;787191] I for one would not mind paying more.


You can write a check to the U.S. Treasury any time you want to for however much more you want to pay. So if you don't mind paying more, then do it.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:18 AM   #51
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He is reducing the deficit by cutting taxes?
This is what Reagan tried. It didn't work too well, and he later raised taxes.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:20 AM   #52
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I'm not sure what your point is but 153K isn't a lot of money these days - especially with a family.

Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI, taxpayers with an AGI of $153,542 or more in 2006 constituted the nation's top 5 percent of earners.
If I made 150k, or 100k per year for that matter, I'd be set. Me and the DW have never made more than 90k with a family and we haven't really struggled with finances too much. We did have one major hiccup, but that was after taking a 25% pay cut.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:51 PM   #53
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If I made 150k, or 100k per year for that matter, I'd be set.
Could be, assuming you had that job long enough such that if you were a "hypersaver" while you had that income, you'd have years worth of cash to get through it hitting the fan.

That's what we've been trying to do lately ourselves.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:39 PM   #54
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So, Obama's planning on "cutting" the deficit to Bush era levels, and everyone is supposed to be impressed? Looking at his proposal, the major cut is in Iraq spending (1.6T over 10 years, if I recall correctly), which is something that was he was going to do anyway. Most importantly, his proposal assumes GDP growth in the coming years. If the economy does turn around and grows in the next few years, I hope the annual budget deficit is not half a trillion dollars. I would not consider that an accomplishment, since that's where we were under Bush, and it's not a sustainable level.

My guess is that the government solutions to the current credit crisis, combined with future tax increases, will retard growth, and the deficits that we run are greater than $1T. I leave open the possibility of Obama being tough on budgets in 2012 during his re-election bid.
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