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Old 09-28-2010, 03:03 PM   #101
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Back to title of the subject of the thread.

I think the Pledge to America is a good idea, from a political standpoint. It allows the Republicans running for office to point to a document that describes in general terms what they want to do (smaller govt, less spending). They'd be idiots to detail all the hard-to-do and politically unpopular budget cutting right now. Rep Paul Ryan has taken some big hits from within the party for putting the real choices in stark relief--it's seen, correctly, as hurting Republicans. The Democrats are on the ropes, and it's best to keep the spotlight focused on their agenda--as already enacted and as promised. Let them reap the fruits of their work at the ballot box--there's nothing to be gained by getting between voters and the target of their anger.
When the election is over and both sides take stock of the gains and losses, maybe then there will be enough incentive to deal with the tough issues like adults. There are going to be cuts in Medicare, in SS, and in the discretionary budget. That's a given.
I agree that the Pledge is a political document, and they will be as vague as possible on anything unpopular. But, from a retiree's perspective, it struck me as interesting that they immediately exempted seniors from any short term cuts. Maybe there will be cuts in Medicare and SS sometime in the future, but the R's seem to be saying that's the distant future. The closest they come is saying we need "full accounting" so we can "protect our entitlement programs for today's seniors and ..."

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We will make the decisions that are necessary to protect our entitlement programs for today’s seniors and future generations. That means requiring a full accounting of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, setting benchmarks for these programs and reviewing them regularly, and preventing the expansion of unfunded liabilities.
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:14 PM   #102
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Good point.

I say we give the high income folks a personal income tax break, because some (about 3%) are small businesses (mostly sole proprietorships with no employees), and small businesses (SBA defines as 500 employees or less) create most jobs..

Employers don't "create" private sector jobs. Consumers do. For example If I would like to teach a course and get paid for it, everything depends on enough students signing up and paying. I'm a small business. No customers, no work no job. The argument for small businesses is that in a recovery they have less excess capacity available so they hire people if consumers are buying. Businesses do need reliable credit, but more important they need customers.
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:40 PM   #103
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Employers don't "create" private sector jobs. Consumers do. For example If I would like to teach a course and get paid for it, everything depends on enough students signing up and paying. I'm a small business. No customers, no work no job.
"OFGS," I'm glad we're not paying for this. Of course what you say is true, but let's just stick with the "regular" definition of a "job" so that we don't descend into the third level of semantics hell. An employer is needed to set the conditions for labor to meet the needs of consumers (and to do a lot of supporting functions to increase demand, efficiently produce products and services, etc). A lot of factors other than "number of buyers" go into determining whether or not to hire more workers.

Do those students send you a W-2/1099? I thought not.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:08 PM   #104
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Employers don't "create" private sector jobs. Consumers do.
Of course, now I understand! Consumers lined up somewhere and demanded I-Pods, and I-books, and Excel and Facebook and Twitter and the telephone and the automobile. Savings and entrpreneurship and private non-housing investment had no part to play. That is why China is growing so rapidly and is becoming a dominant world power- all those Chinese consumers with 0 savings rates taking on consumer debt and spending like crazy like their more sophisticated brothers and sisters in the USA.

Let's give a $400 rebate to every certifiably poor person in America, and just sit back and marvel at the astounding inventions that will pour forth.

Finally, it is clear.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:10 PM   #105
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OFGS, Ha...
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:17 PM   #106
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:26 PM   #107
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Oh for God's sake, can't we all just agree on something, like what OFGS means?

(Samclem, I love this acronym that is new to me--thanks for another learning moment here on e-r.org!)
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:27 PM   #108
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Oh for God's sake, can't we all just agree on something, like what OFGS means?
Depends on what you think it means.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:40 PM   #109
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:57 PM   #110
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Depends on what you think it means.
Apparently, it means Ohio Fruit Growers Society. This board is really getting subtle.

OFGS

Ha
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:02 PM   #111
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Giving money to rich people is useless and does not stimulate the economy.
If you want to stimulated the economy you have to give money to the poor.

Its only "your" money if you made it overseas. if you take advantage of the laws, defense services education etc here, the society has a fair claim

Vince

What you think is fair and what I think is fair has a BIG gap in between...

PS... the US gvmt does not think it is MY money if I made it overseas... they tax it anyhow... I know... I earned money overseas...
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:17 PM   #112
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Of course, now I understand! Consumers lined up somewhere and demanded I-Pods, and I-books, and Excel and Facebook and Twitter and the telephone and the automobile. Savings and entrpreneurship and private non-housing investment had no part to play. That is why China is growing so rapidly and is becoming a dominant world power- all those Chinese consumers with 0 savings rates taking on consumer debt and spending like crazy like their more sophisticated brothers and sisters in the USA.

Let's give a $400 rebate to every certifiably poor person in America, and just sit back and marvel at the astounding inventions that will pour forth.

Finally, it is clear.
You hit that one out of the park.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:24 PM   #113
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.... People who might have gone to work for profit making enterprises, and thus possibly have been Republican voters, will now be safely working for the government, and we know what that means in the voting booth.

Ha
No, I don't know what that means and I was a government worker for over 25 years and active duty military for 4.

What does it mean, Ha?





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Old 09-28-2010, 07:35 PM   #114
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A hint for you Tex-One Swallow Does Not Make A Spring.

Ha
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:39 PM   #115
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Apparently, it means Ohio Fruit Growers Society. This board is really getting subtle.
Wow! That's Funny.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:43 PM   #116
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A hint for you Tex-One Swallow Does Not Make A Spring.
Does it have anything to do with broken promises?
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After a little more than a year on this forum - this will be my last post.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:44 PM   #117
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A hint for you Tex-One Swallow Does Not Make A Spring.

Ha
OFGS: One Full Grown Swallow?
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:57 PM   #118
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Of course, now I understand! Consumers lined up somewhere and demanded I-Pods, and I-books, and Excel and Facebook and Twitter and the telephone and the automobile. Savings and entrpreneurship and private non-housing investment had no part to play. That is why China is growing so rapidly and is becoming a dominant world power- all those Chinese consumers with 0 savings rates taking on consumer debt and spending like crazy like their more sophisticated brothers and sisters in the USA.

Let's give a $400 rebate to every certifiably poor person in America, and just sit back and marvel at the astounding inventions that will pour forth.

Finally, it is clear.

The question is who creates jobs . you did not ask who invents products etc.

Consumer create jobs.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:15 PM   #119
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Oh for God's sake, can't we all just agree on something, like what OFGS means?
(Samclem, I love this acronym that is new to me--thanks for another learning moment here on e-r.org!)
Well, that was my second guess at the acronym.

You're going to add it to the forum's acronym list, including all its alternate decryptions?
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:24 PM   #120
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The question is who creates jobs . you did not ask who invents products etc.

Consumer create jobs.
Strangely circular. Got any good chicken-egg jokes?

Hmmm, so let's consider a start-up? In some cases, an individual or group has a vision for a new product/service that doesn't yet exist. There are no consumers if there is nothing to consume. But to bring that product/service to market, they need to first (wait for it...)... hire some people (AKA - create jobs)! Now, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

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