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View Poll Results: Should possession and use of Marijuana be legal for adults?
Yes, it should be legal 230 68.05%
Sort of, only for medicinal use as prescribed by a physician 24 7.10%
No, but the penalty for possession of small amounts should be minor and not involve jail time 40 11.83%
No, throw the book at 'em. 12 3.55%
Yes, but only for small amounts. 32 9.47%
Voters: 338. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-21-2013, 10:01 PM   #201
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... The world would be a better place if neither alcohol or marijuana had ever been discovered, invented or introduced to society...
Louis Armstrong, Bing Crosby, Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, and Neil Young, among many others, all are known to having used or admitting to using MJ to create their music. Would our world be a "better place" without their music? Not for me.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:12 PM   #202
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Louis Armstrong, Bing Crosby, Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, and Neil Young, among many others, all are known to having admitted or having used MJ to create their music. Would our world be a "better place" without their music? Not for me.
Don't leave John Lennon off this list. I've been rediscovering his stuff lately, and he was a genius.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:12 PM   #203
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I've never smoked marijuana and have no desire to, but it's no worse for you than alcohol so I see no reason for it to be illegal. The world would be a better place if neither alcohol or marijuana had ever been discovered, invented or introduced to society ...
Actually, both substances have well-known health benefits when used in moderation.

Alcohol can be devastating if used in excess or in spite of contraindications - much like hydrocodone, oxycontin, etc. Tobacco is unique in that it causes devastating health consequences in almost everyone if used for long enough, even when used as directed, and is also arguably the most addictive drug known to man. Marijuana ? Well, if you smoke WAY too much, it can cause some of the same problems as tobacco, but unlike tobacco, it's not physically addictive. There's little question (in my mind) that the worst damage done by marijuana is because of its illegality: both because of the people unjustly ensnared in the legal system and because of the drug cartels who are actually enabled by its prohibition.

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
I might have touched the stuff twice in my life and haven't been near it in 20 years. I still voted for legalization in my state.
What a concept. I honor you. (Not being sarcastic).
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:28 PM   #204
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Actually, both substances have well-known health benefits when used in moderation.
I am familiar with the research on alcohol. I wouldn't call it an unmitigated plus, but there are enough offsetting positives that I can rationalize my fondness for spending time with "Al."

Is there research out there showing positive health effects from MJ? I would guess that a lot of the positives would be offset by lung damage.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:11 AM   #205
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I am familiar with the research on alcohol. I wouldn't call it an unmitigated plus, but there are enough offsetting positives that I can rationalize my fondness for spending time with "Al."
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that either was an unmitigated plus. Very few things in life are.
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Is there research out there showing positive health effects from MJ?
You might have heard of medical marijuana :-) Granted, I think a lot of it is just "backdoor" legalization, and it seems to be the case that in medical marijuana states it is possible to easily obtain a prescription from doctors (presumably because they, who should best know, realize what nonsense prohibition is).
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I would guess that a lot of the positives would be offset by lung damage
One hears a lot about that - perhaps even that the smoke, gram for gram, is more harmful than tobacco smoke. But smoking 20 or more cigs a day is typical. I think very few pot smokers consume anywhere near that many joints - plus a joint is typically less herbage than a cigarette, plus joints are usually shared, plus a lot of people are using devices that "clean" the smoke somewhat (e.g. water pipes and vaporizers). And of course, if you or your doctor decide you're getting too much of that smoke, with MJ you're not dealing with a drug that's arguably more addictive than heroin.

Anecdotally, in graduate school I did research on new methods of detecting lung disease. Our methods were able to detect very distinct differences between a young healthy non-smoker and a young apparently-healthy cigarette smoker; in fact, data from the latter looked more like that from an elderly person crippled by COPD. Back then, when I was getting my PhD, I smoked a lot more pot than I do now (but wait, I thought pot was supposed to kill ambition ?!?). Even so, running the tests on myself, I looked more like a non-smoker than an asymptomatic tobacco smoker.

As usual, insight can be gained by following the money. (As one of the cops on "The Wire" says "You follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. But you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the **** it's gonna take you !") I'm sure far more money has been spent trying to show that marijuana is bad for you, than to show it's good for you. With tobacco, the opposite is the case (at least if you count the lawyers trying to litigate that there's not proof it's bad for you). Even with this bias, look where we are.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:22 AM   #206
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Don't leave John Lennon off this list. I've been rediscovering his stuff lately, and he was a genius.
You have some of John Lennon's weed?

Kewl!
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:35 AM   #207
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Louis Armstrong, Bing Crosby, Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, and Neil Young, among many others, all are known to having used or admitting to using MJ to create their music. Would our world be a "better place" without their music? Not for me.
What if you were sitting around listening to some "Band on the Run" while at the same time feeling very sad because some drunk (or intoxicated pothead) ran over and killed your son while he was crossing the street?

You cant seriously think that any possible benefits of alcohol or marijuana being introduced to society in the first place outweighs all the pain that they have caused. I don't think there's anything wrong with alcohol or marijuana when used properly but we all know that there are a lot of people who abuse them. I'm not saying they should be taken away. That was tried and failed. I just think if we had never had them in the first place, the world would be better off overall.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:33 AM   #208
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You cant seriously think that any possible benefits of alcohol or marijuana being introduced to society in the first place outweighs all the pain that they have caused. I don't think there's anything wrong with alcohol or marijuana when used properly but we all know that there are a lot of people who abuse them. I'm not saying they should be taken away. That was tried and failed. I just think if we had never had them in the first place, the world would be better off overall.
Won't necessarily argue that point, but humans have been getting high ever since we crawled out of the muck. Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle...
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:21 AM   #209
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You have some of John Lennon's weed?

Kewl!
Sometimes people around here are just plain ridiculous
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:39 AM   #210
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Sometimes people around here are just plain ridiculous
I liked the comment also. It was a great counterbalance to all the dry 4% withdrawal rate posts!
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:46 AM   #211
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As I recall there were still cities in states like Texas that prohibited the sale of alchohol. I remember checking into a hotel and having to join a 'club' so I could have a glass of wine at the hotel restaurant. If the citizens of any state want to keep these restrictions on alcohol or MJ they can choose to do so. Other states will choose differently.

I imagine that other states will watch CO and WA very closely over the next few years. If the legalization scheme works well, the floodgates will probably open. If not, the legalization crowd will retreat.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:48 AM   #212
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Yeah, it's going to happen everywhere unless CO and WA are disasters. Gen X and Gen Y just don't think it's that big of a deal. Wheee...watch the demographics change.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #213
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Speaking of John Lennon, Yoko Ono just turned 80 this week! She was born Feb. 18, 1933.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:16 PM   #214
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Yeah, it's going to happen everywhere unless CO and WA are disasters. Gen X and Gen Y just don't think it's that big of a deal. Wheee...watch the demographics change.
Haven't done it in decades since my wilder years, even then probably a dozen times, tops, and certainly haven't looked for it. But if it was on the rack in the cashier aisle on sale for $3 a joint, and a sleeve of Oreos conveniently beside it, I might make a "trip" down memory lane one last time.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #215
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Won't necessarily argue that point, but humans have been getting high ever since we crawled out of the muck. Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle...
Did you read all of my post?

Originally Posted by utrecht
You cant seriously think that any possible benefits of alcohol or marijuana being introduced to society in the first place outweighs all the pain that they have caused. I don't think there's anything wrong with alcohol or marijuana when used properly but we all know that there are a lot of people who abuse them. I'm not saying they should be taken away. That was tried and failed. I just think if we had never had them in the first place, the world would be better off overall.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:17 PM   #216
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Did you read all of my post?
Oh really ? We're supposed to do that before making an indignant response ?
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but humans have been getting high ever since we crawled out of the muck
Andrew Weil - yes, the same Santa Claus looking MD who is a proponent of alternative therapies, arguably the "father of integrative medicine" - states in his 70s book "The Natural Mind" that getting high is a fundamental human need just below air, food, water, and companionship. He cites the frequency of behaviors, among children, that are intended to induce altered consciousness, such as twirling around until very dizzy, hyperventilating, etc. And notes that children typically feel guilty about it, being more likely to do it when adults aren't around and stooping when adults appear.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:40 PM   #217
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Did you read all of my post?
Yes; no disrespect intended...

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Oh really ? We're supposed to do that before making an indignant response ?
My response was not indignant...

I bow out of this conversation, since no one seems to have a sense of humor.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:48 PM   #218
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I bow out of this conversation, since no one seems to have a sense of humor.
Yeah people need to chill...


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Old 02-22-2013, 02:50 PM   #219
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Yeah people need to chill...


San Francisco does that to you...
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #220
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San Francisco does that to you...
SF is often rated one of the healthiest and happiest cities in America. Just sayin'...
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