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View Poll Results: Should possession and use of Marijuana be legal for adults?
Yes, it should be legal 230 68.05%
Sort of, only for medicinal use as prescribed by a physician 24 7.10%
No, but the penalty for possession of small amounts should be minor and not involve jail time 40 11.83%
No, throw the book at 'em. 12 3.55%
Yes, but only for small amounts. 32 9.47%
Voters: 338. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #221
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SF is often rated one of the healthiest and happiest cities in America. Just sayin'...
Yes. We've all noticed how mellow you have become.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:56 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
My response was not indignant...

I bow out of this conversation, since no one seems to have a sense of humor.
Sorry, I meant that as a joke - seriously.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #223
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SF is often rated one of the healthiest and happiest cities in America. Just sayin'...
It is also the only city to dam a National Park - Yosemite - for their water supply

FREE THE HETCH HETCHY!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:44 PM   #224
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It is also the only city to dam a National Park - Yosemite - for their water supply

FREE THE HETCH HETCHY!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure that fresh Yosemite water keeps us happy and healthy too.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:08 PM   #225
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I'd vote for legalization. BUT, it bothers me that we seem to go to extremes.

A reasonable middle ground for both alcohol and mj is "production, sale, and use" are legal, but we ban advertising.

I'm old enough to remember TV commercials for cigarettes. I think that getting rid of them has had a significant impact on smoking. When we turned off the Madison Avenue machine that made smoking "sophisticated, cool, masculine, liberated, etc." more people thought of it as a bad habit.

I'd go further than just TV, and try to get rid of all advertising.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:32 PM   #226
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You can bet legalization wouldn't involve the status quo as far as growing and distribution goes. It would be sold as a prescribed pharmeceutical. Probably similar to the way Viagra is prescribed now. Meaning you don't really need a defined health problem to convince a doctor to prescribe it to you.

I don't think legalization would be as simple as raising the speed limit. It would still be a controlled substance. The real question, is who would be allowed to grow the stuff?

If one says everybody should be allowed to grow it, then you've just given marijuana a privledge that every other mind altering substance doesn't have.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:46 PM   #227
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Haven't done it in decades since my wilder years, even then probably a dozen times, tops, and certainly haven't looked for it. But if it was on the rack in the cashier aisle on sale for $3 a joint, and a sleeve of Oreos conveniently beside it, I might make a "trip" down memory lane one last time.
I'd reconsider that. All the sugar in those Oreo's is known to be bad for your health. And after a J it will be a whole bag not just a sleeve
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:10 PM   #228
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You can bet legalization wouldn't involve the status quo as far as growing and distribution goes. It would be sold as a prescribed pharmeceutical. Probably similar to the way Viagra is prescribed now. Meaning you don't really need a defined health problem to convince a doctor to prescribe it to you.

I don't think legalization would be as simple as raising the speed limit. It would still be a controlled substance. The real question, is who would be allowed to grow the stuff?

If one says everybody should be allowed to grow it, then you've just given marijuana a privledge that every other mind altering substance doesn't have.
Actually, legalization here in CO specifically allows adults to grow up to 6 plants for their personal consumption.

As for your last statement, I already brew my own beer, I have made my own wine, etc. The poppies hat are commonly grown as ornaments are opium poppies. Its perfectly legal to grow your own tobacco and no less than Seeds of Change used to (maybe still does) sell two varieties of heirloom tobacco seeds. I fail to see the difference.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:53 PM   #229
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There sure must be a bunch of potheads on this board. I must live in a sheltered environment. 60 years old, and the only place I've seen a joint is in the movies.

I don't think my situation is unique among the general public. And there lies your problem with legalization.
I'm just a little younger than you. I lived in Los Angeles for 12 years and spent 8 years in college getting a few degrees. I've seen a joint and recognize the smell but never tried it.

However, I voted yes and supported our Colorado law. "Gateway" argument aside, I find potheads less problematic than those who drink socially. Moreover, my sister has MS and pot is the only thing that takes away the negative symptoms of the disease. Making pot legal also helps her in accessing the drug.

Once the Fed syncs up with our state law, I might try it. I've been fine without pot for over 50 years and in no rush.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:25 PM   #230
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I don't know how I feel about it since I never used it. There is just something that turns me off about setting something on fire and sucking it into my lungs. If it turns you on, have a good time.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:09 PM   #231
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I've noticed that almost everyone on this thread feels compelled to mention that they never use the stuff (MJ), or may have once or twice in their earlier years, or use it occasionally in the very late evening (but certainly never earlier than the mid-afternoon), etc. What's up with that ? Are folks actually so distrustful of our law-enforcement establishment ? Do folks somehow think this makes them more virtuous, in general, or with respect to the regard in with their opinions on this matter should be held ?

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Originally Posted by BLS53 View Post
You can bet legalization wouldn't involve the status quo as far as growing and distribution goes. It would be sold as a prescribed pharmeceutical. Probably similar to the way Viagra is prescribed now. Meaning you don't really need a defined health problem to convince a doctor to prescribe it to you.

I don't think legalization would be as simple as raising the speed limit. It would still be a controlled substance. The real question, is who would be allowed to grow the stuff?

If one says everybody should be allowed to grow it, then you've just given marijuana a privledge that every other mind altering substance doesn't have.
I'm not quite sure why you think MJ would or should (I can't quite discern your meaning) be treated any differently than the most popular mind-altering substance, alcohol. I'm pretty sure everybody is allowed to brew their own beer (or wine, though it's a lot more difficult to get right). Thanks to President Carter (or so I've been told) you no longer need to have terribly deep pockets to be able to brew beer for resale - hence the "microbrew revolution" (where the USA is arguably the world's premier beer producer, and I'm not just referring to quantity).
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:17 AM   #232
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What if you were sitting around listening to some "Band on the Run" while at the same time feeling very sad because some drunk (or intoxicated pothead) ran over and killed your son while he was crossing the street? ...
Motor vehicle deaths caused by "potheads" are quite few. Fatal accidents where the driver was found to have consumed MJ are mostly alcohol-influenced. I'll wager that more motor vehicle deaths over the past ten years were caused by drivers distracted by their cell-phones than by MJ use.

From my almost 60 years of real life and criminal law experience, having attended college in the early 1970s (if you know what that means), and being a rock musician wanna-be ever since high school, I have witnessed MJ use among some family, friends, and strangers for decades. Never, ever, during all those many years have I ever been concerned by their MJ use. They have families, kids and jobs. They don't drive their vehicles recklessly. They don't commit crimes to get more MJ. They are you and me.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:00 AM   #233
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All I'm saying, is there are many questions on what effect legalization would have. A home brewer or gardener's point of view, is not going to be the only input taken into consideration if legalization is considered.

Another obstacle, is that marijuana has no legitimate economic structure for federal lawmakers to turn to when considering legislation. I doubt that the heads of illegal drug cartels are going to respond to a subpoena to testify on Capitol Hill. More likely the panels wiould be populated by academics, who have agendas on one side or the other, and a few parents who will claim their child's life was ruined by using pot. Any regular pot users who show up, will be surrounded by a team of attorneys reminiscent of the Baseball Steroid Use Hearings. Where the witnesses "refuse to talk about the past".

I don't know the background of the leg work that led up to the recent legislation in the individual states. My bet would be on the presence of a significant number of legislators that were elected to office based in part on a strong pro-marijuana platform. I don't see the political will for that on a national level.

Marijuana use is one of many social trends that rose in popularity during the counter culture of the 1960's. Most of the other trends have achieved legitimacy within American society. Either through legislation or acceptance within society, where enforcement of existing laws is impossible. Marijuana has not achieved that stature. There is not enough support nationally to get marijuana legalized. And given the ongoing enforcement of marijuana laws in a large number of jurisdictions, I don't see legalization happening anytime soon.

At the end of the day, it stems from a weak lobbying effort. NORML has been around at least 40 years, and the most I can recall of them is an occasional full page ad in Playboy Magazine. Compare that to the results of it's contemporaries, like the NAACP, NOW, and the various Gay advocacy groups. I don't know if there have been cases at The Supreme Court level concerning the use of marijuana. If there has been, they obviously weren't successful. Success meaning the impact, as compared to say, a Roe v Wade.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:18 AM   #234
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Motor vehicle deaths caused by "potheads" are quite few. Fatal accidents where the driver was found to have consumed MJ are mostly alcohol-influenced. I'll wager that more motor vehicle deaths over the past ten years were caused by drivers distracted by their cell-phones than by MJ use.

From my almost 60 years of real life and criminal law experience, having attended college in the early 1970s (if you know what that means), and being a rock musician wanna-be ever since high school, I have witnessed MJ use among some family, friends, and strangers for decades. Never, ever, during all those many years have I ever been concerned by their MJ use. They have families, kids and jobs. They don't drive their vehicles recklessly. They don't commit crimes to get more MJ. They are you and me.
What that tells me is that your family and friends are happy with the status quo. They obtain marijuana with ease, and don't feel threatened by law enforcement. If they are individuals of prominent social stature, they would have more to lose by coming out of the closet, and pertaking in a legalization movement.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:26 AM   #235
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YES.
How strange that my first post as a retiring police off. would be about Marijuana. After 26 years as a cop in a large city, I would have to say compared
To alcohol there is no comparison, as I can't remember how many fights I was forced into from people intoxicated, as there were so many, I
really can't remember ever being in a fight with someone stoned. I find it rather hypocritical for a lot of people around my age group calling
people smoking marihuana as a bunch of no good druggies as they themselves are polishing off their 4th vodka tonic. My position on this is as long as the public
looks the other way knowing how dangerous alcohol is, as I am being forced to retire at 49 due to a drunk running me over 15 yrs ago, then
How dare you stand judgement over someone else's choice of intoxicant. I have
no love of any intoxicants, but that's just me, as long as your "escape" doesn't infringe on others have at it,
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:52 AM   #236
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I'd reconsider that. All the sugar in those Oreo's is known to be bad for your health. And after a J it will be a whole bag not just a sleeve
That is funny, but true to me. It has been so long ago, I can't even remember the effects the "J" has on you. But I do still remember the feeling of a stomach about to explode from eating almost a whole bag of Oreos, yet still strangely wanting to eat more. That in itself would be a good reason to stay "in retirement" at my age now, as it would take a month to burn off those Oreo calories.
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:39 PM   #237
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I don't know the background of the leg work that led up to the recent legislation in the individual states. My bet would be on the presence of a significant number of legislators that were elected to office based in part on a strong pro-marijuana platform. I don't see the political will for that on a national level.
I cannot speak for the other states, but in CO weed was legalized via a direct ballot initiative. Such things require a cetain number of signatures to be gathered to get them up for vote and usually there is an interested group or groups organizing the signature drive and then trying to get people to vote for the initiative. In this case, it was a combination of national MJ legalization groups, some of the local medical MJ community, a few miscellaneous celebrities (who I doubt anyone pays much attention to), and the manufacturers of Dr. Bronner's soaps. The last is a bit weird, but the ballot initiative legalized the production/growing of industrial hemp for fiber and oil. Since Dr. Bronner's uses hemp oil in their soap making and it is not legal to grow in the US, they have to pay through the nose to import what they need from Canada and elsewhere. Since medical MJ has been legal here for some years, its not a wildly foreign thought to just legalize it for everyone.

The legislators and the governor did not support the change here in CO, but they have not bothered to fight it since a majority of the voters agreed with it and now everyone is legally bound to implement it. There is actually a commission that is in the process of working out the many details of how to implement it and what will/will not be allowed. Among many other details, the commission recently decided to allow the sale of small amounts of legal weed to non-residents. Soon you will be able to come visit the Amsterdam of the Rockies if you wish.
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #238
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I've noticed that almost everyone on this thread feels compelled to mention that they never use the stuff (MJ), or may have once or twice in their earlier years, or use it occasionally in the very late evening (but certainly never earlier than the mid-afternoon), etc. What's up with that ? Are folks actually so distrustful of our law-enforcement establishment ? Do folks somehow think this makes them more virtuous, in general, or with respect to the regard in with their opinions on this matter should be held ?
Simple statement of fact in my case; cannot speak for others. Even though CO has legalized weed, employers are still within their rights to can an employee who tests positive for the stuff (as idiotic as that whole charade is).
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:05 PM   #239
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The legislators and the governor did not support the change here in CO, but they have not bothered to fight it since a majority of the voters agreed with it ...
But the Governor DID famously say "don't break out the Cheetos or Goldfish too quickly".
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:38 PM   #240
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I've noticed that almost everyone on this thread feels compelled to mention that they never use the stuff (MJ), or may have once or twice in their earlier years, or use it occasionally in the very late evening (but certainly never earlier than the mid-afternoon), etc. What's up with that ? Are folks actually so distrustful of our law-enforcement establishment ? Do folks somehow think this makes them more virtuous, in general, or with respect to the regard in with their opinions on this matter should be held ?


I'm not quite sure why you think MJ would or should (I can't quite discern your meaning) be treated any differently than the most popular mind-altering substance, alcohol. I'm pretty sure everybody is allowed to brew their own beer (or wine, though it's a lot more difficult to get right). Thanks to President Carter (or so I've been told) you no longer need to have terribly deep pockets to be able to brew beer for resale - hence the "microbrew revolution" (where the USA is arguably the world's premier beer producer, and I'm not just referring to quantity).
I think its pretty clear that some people here are distrustful of law enforcement based on a thread we had not long ago about NEVER talking to cops.

I doubt that's why people are saying they've never tried MJ though. Nothing can be done to you legally for admitting to smoking MJ. You have to either be caught in possession of it, or be intoxicated from it to be charged with anything. I think most people are pointing out the fact that you don't have to be a pothead to believe it should be legal.
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