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View Poll Results: Should possession and use of Marijuana be legal for adults?
Yes, it should be legal 230 68.05%
Sort of, only for medicinal use as prescribed by a physician 24 7.10%
No, but the penalty for possession of small amounts should be minor and not involve jail time 40 11.83%
No, throw the book at 'em. 12 3.55%
Yes, but only for small amounts. 32 9.47%
Voters: 338. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-30-2010, 10:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
One could just as easily use this logic to argue that alcohol should be illegal. We've already seen how well that works.
The issue of alcohol is only mentioned because you used it in your rationale. "I just don't see any real difference between smoking pot and drinking ..."

The rationale is not if alcohol should then be outlawed it is that if some bad (alcohol) is OK that more (drugs) is OK too.

I used it to refute the idea that more death and injury is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post

I don't see a sudden rush to smoke pot if it were legal. The people who smoke now will continue to smoke; it just won't be illegal.
Legalization means that the drug could then be sold in stores with increased distribution, lower cost and easier access. Legalization eliminates obstacles currently with it being illegal - fear of breaking the law, not easy to find for the average person, social stigma, etc. With those and similar obstacles removed more people will use it. In addition, over time it would become more socially acceptable.
So there might not be a black Friday rush on it but usage would increase over time. Also, it isn't just the use of the drug alone but when used with others. That is why caffeinated alcohol drinks were outlawed.

All legalization does is increase the problem and move it around from interdiction to cleaning up the dead, injured and impaired after the harm is done.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:14 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
What he said. Anyone check out beer prices lately?
Oh, wow. Dave was gonna go out and check out the beer and stuff.
Dave? Hey, Dave?

(Knock at door)
Who is it?
- It's me, Dave, man. Open up, I got the stuff.
Who?
- It's, Dave, man. Open up, I think the cops saw me come in here.
(More knocking)
Who is it?
- It's, Dave, man. Will you open up, I got the stuff with me.
Who?
- Dave, man. Open up.
Dave?
- Yeah, Dave. C'mon, man, open up, I think the cops saw me.

Dave's not here.

- No, man, I'm Dave, man.
(More knocking)
- Hey, c'mon, man.
Who is it?
- It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me.
Who?
- Dave, man. Open up.
Dave?
- Yeah, Dave.
Dave's not here.
- What the hell? No, man, I am Dave, man. Will you...
(More knocking)
- C'mon! Open up the door, will you? I got the stuff with me, I think the cops saw me.
Who is it?
- Oh, what the hell is it...c'mon. Open up the door! It's Dave!
Who?
- Dave! D-A-V-E! Will you open up the goddam door!
Dave?
- Yeah, Dave!
Dave?
- Right, man. Dave. Now will you open up the door?
Dave's not here.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
I just don't see any real difference between smoking pot and drinking, except that pot is not distributed via a price-gouging system that would grossly violate the antitrust laws if not for the 21st Amendment.
One other difference is that I have never heard of a 'mean pot smoker", but we all know some mean drunks.

On second thought, maybe some of you people who move only in refined circles don't know any of these...

Ha
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:28 PM   #24
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What he said. Anyone check out beer prices lately?
Check out beer prices in the Frozen North. Booze is "free" south of the 49th.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:04 AM   #25
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I knew a person who struggled with cancer, watched them waste away with, suffering from the side effects of chemo messing with their appetite. The weight dropped because of no eating, which seriously weakened them.
Pot helped her, but by the time she gave it a try, there was little time. I am a prude about recreational drugs of any kind whether beer, tobacco, or whatever, but that pot is illegal in her circumstances is WRONG!
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:54 AM   #26
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I really can't think of any good reason a doctor shouldn't be able to prescribe marijuana or derivatives thereof. After all, they can prescribe opiates when medically necessary. I am still not sure whether non-medicinal use should also be legalized. I didn't vote in the poll, because there's no option for "definitely for medical use and maybe for non-medicinal also".
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:07 AM   #27
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I used it to refute the idea that more death and injury is a good idea.
Yes, we understand that all dangerous recreational activities should be banned. Skiing and sky-diving are two other things that people often do merely because they are fun.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:07 AM   #28
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What he said. Anyone check out beer prices lately?
Nope.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:12 AM   #29
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I was in Amsterdam in October where marijuana, while not technically legal, is openly tolerated in over 100 coffee houses. I didn't notice stoners stumbling around the streets and suspect their quasi-legalization has little impact on overall use.

I do think pot is different than typical alcohol use. You smoke to get stoned whereas most people have a few drinks for the taste or a very minor buzz. But those who drink to excess (and there are a lot of them) are much more likely (in my opinion) to drive, fight, etc than people stoned on marijuana. Thus they pose a far bigger risk to themselves and others. So why criminalize the less dangerous substance and celebrate the more dangerous?

And for inquiring minds who want to know, yes we did give the wares a try and, yes, the highly cultivated boutique stuff available today is much more potent than the standard stuff around 40 years ago. But, for the vast majority of users, this results in fairly infrequent use. Most of us just wouldn't want to be that high all the time.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:35 AM   #30
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For most of my adult life I have been in favor of legalizing weed. I am now bending to the other side. There is just too much stuff floating around these days to intoxicate folks both legally and otherwise. Why open up Pandora's box?
This has always been the case. Since the dawn of time people have found ways to alter their consciousness.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:39 AM   #31
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I don't know how I feel about it since I never used it. There is just something that turns me off about setting something on fire and sucking it into my lungs. If it turns you on, have a good time.
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+1
Try some brownies sometime. You might like it.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:12 AM   #32
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BTW, you can still order a Vodka and Red Bull at the bar, but those poor young entrepreneurs who started Four Loco, with caffeine and booze combined in one package get tons of grief and have to remove the caffeine from their drink. Not that I've ever tried a Four Loco, but it is kinda dumb to single them out.

At the music festivals we go to, there are far greater concerns about drunks than stoners getting out of hand. Drunks can be violent. The stoners very rarely cause any trouble.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:13 AM   #33
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I was in Amsterdam in October where marijuana, while not technically legal, is openly tolerated in over 100 coffee houses. I didn't notice stoners stumbling around the streets and suspect their quasi-legalization has little impact on overall use.
But that would not be correct.
Quote:
A fundamental principle in economic science is that supply and price of a product affect its demand. With cannabis legally and plentifully available, its use is much higher in Amsterdam (almost 3 times more) than in the rest of the country (note: 80% of Dutch municipalities do not allow the sale of marijuana). Furthermore, in Amsterdam marijuana consumption is well above EU averages - and these figures do not count the tourists. An urban problem? Hardly so: there is no difference in the rates of marijuana use between London and the rest of the UK, or between Washington DC and the rest of the USA. Elsewhere in the world, the urban setting does not affect drug consumption rates: why should it affect Amsterdam? To conclude, the city has a health problem caused by marijuana availability, and this could get worse as cannabis becomes more potent.
Source: UN Office on Drugs and Crime - A study tour of Amsterdam - June 2008. A study tour of Amsterdam

People look at the city of Amsterdam and see the cafes and think that the national marijuana usage of the Netherlands is a result. But that's not necessarily true.
Quote:
Despite its reputation, the Netherlands does not actually have a tolerant drug policy. Law enforcement is tough. There are increased efforts to hit drug traffickers and confiscate their assets: the city's enormous Schiphol airport has long maintained a zero-drug tolerance on passengers, crews, cargos and even aircraft. Throughout the country, there are plenty of measures (even coercive) to address the health of drug addicts. Spending on drug control is by far the highest in Europe (almost 0.7% of GDP). As a result, the Netherlands has below EU-average annual prevalence rates of cocaine, opiate, and amphetamine use. The percentage of people (aged 15-65) who consume cannabis at least once a year (5.4%) is above the global average (3.9%), though much lower than, say, Spain and Italy (11.2%) or Canada (17%).

Note, however, that despite the high budget expenditure (much larger than even in Sweden, where 0.47% of GDP is spent in drug control), the prevalence rate of cannabis use in the Netherlands is greater than in Sweden (3.1%). Is it that tolerant attitudes on the ground (i.e. at the municipal level) reduce the impact of otherwise uniquely high drug-related national budget expenditure?
It looks to me as if loose Marijuana policies in the city of Amsterdam result in very high levels of usage, and strict policies in the rest of the country account for a much lower level of usage.

The Dutch are even considering limiting sales to Dutch residents only. According to one coffee shop employee, 99% of the customers are tourists and this will shut down the industry. On your next trip to Amsterdam you may find yourself limited to coffee in the coffee shop.

The next big Dutch anti-Marijuana push is to try and eradicate some of the 40,000 illegal grows. BBC World Service - News - Scratch 'n' sniff marijuana cards distributed in the Netherlands
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:47 AM   #34
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Yes, we understand that all dangerous recreational activities should be banned. Skiing and sky-diving are two other things that people often do merely because they are fun.
You might have missed the point that it is the innocents (i.e. the people not using the drugs but harmed by the user; e.g. automobile, work) and the new users hurting themselves being referred to in that post.

To use your sky-diving example, if it were illegal and the sky-divers were killing/injuring themselves and others on the ground (reason not important) then you made it legal more people would do it and increase death/injury.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:07 PM   #35
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I voted to legalize. I figure that for both alcohol and mj, the costs of prohibition exceed the costs of legalization.

However, I'd like to see tougher laws on alcohol (and mj, if legalized). In particular, we should ban advertising. People who want to use these chemicals will find them. But, no point in convincing lots of non-users and children who happen to be watching TV that users are really cool people who have more fun than non-users.

I'm old enough to remember when cigarettes could be advertised on TV. I think banning those ads has had a big impact on public perceptions of smoking. When tobacco use has to stand on its own, without Madison Avenue support, it doesn't look so attractive.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:26 PM   #36
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Nope.
We're just wondering how much you charge for shipping & handling...

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But, no point in convincing lots of non-users and children who happen to be watching TV that users are really cool people who have more fun than non-users.
You mean role models like Spicoli?

"Dude, all I need is some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:28 PM   #37
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What he said. Anyone check out beer prices lately?

No chit!
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:29 PM   #38
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if it were legal i'd like to use it, presently i don't tho have in the past. however, i can't see smoking it but rather bake it into some food. i did that in the past and the effect was double eating it vs smoking but maybe i ate a lot more than i'd have smoked. can't say for sure.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:40 PM   #39
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This forum is dominated by introverts and INTJ's. Look at the results of this poll...wow, so many for legalization. Rock on! You introverts are more fun than us extroverts would think...
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:33 PM   #40
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To make it medically available is to open up the flood gates to bogus claims and reward unscrupulous Md's . I'd say legalize it with underage laws in place and yes I did smoke it occasionally in my younger days but I did not inhale .
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