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Old 07-12-2009, 09:56 AM   #41
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Actually you do not have the pension thing correct for NYC. I am NYPD with 9 1/2 years left.Not only are NYC cops one of lowest paid in country,especially for the crap we put up with. Yes we have 20 and out,but you know what?we would love to stay longer but city and top brass treats us bad uses us as canon fodder and "blue canaries" for counter terrorism activities.NYS has corrupt politicians that pocket the money ,but its not going to the unions as the papers will have you believe. NYS unions are big and the amount going to pensions seems enormous but remeber nys has large amount of taxpayers and public servants but pensions paid individually are small. For example,many states give police 66%-70% pensions indexed for inflation. NYC only a measely 50% ,i say measely because its not indexed for inflation,so i retire at 46 yr ,i have to wait to 62 get social security(based only on 20 yrs work).my pension can lose half purchasing power by then. You see,NYS has the most smallest cola in existence,might as well be none. At 62 i am entitled to a cola based on half the inflation rate on only 18000 dollars of my pension to a max of 3%.that means nys retirees getting only 180-450 a year increase and thats after being retired 16 yrs.So where is this great padding of pensions?Overtime? al precincts have caps.35 hrs a month,transit 45 hrs. nobody can double their salary. Kingston law also makes sure pensionable income cant be more han 20% of previous yr.
The truth is ofcourse most cops try to get as much ot as possible ,but you know what? 75% cops try to get as much ot as possible all there career to make enough to survive in NYC.The brass and bosses actually mess with cops and will try to screw them by actually taking ot away when they know cops need it most(last year). I think I DESERVE THE MOST POSSIBLE BY MAKING THE MOST FOR PUTTING UP WITH 20 YEARS OF BEING IN A WAR ZONE ,both inside and outside(Some cops who are reservists volunteer multiple times in Iraq to get away on a rest break from the job).
Its good to know that people think its corrupt to make an extra $7000 a yr in the pension from ot doing ot that is mandatory. Most NYPD ot isnt collars for dollars its forced ot on details or fixed posts.Which means someone has to do it,so a soon to be retired cop has right to request it just like anyone else.please post this to any taxpayer whiners you know.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:06 AM   #42
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Well, that certainly ought to spur some conversation!

I will say that jimukr194's statement about the low state of wages at NYPD is pretty accurate. I w*rked with a lot of people in NYC and I was amazed at how low the wages were given the cost of living in that city. An NYPD Sgt. and I compared paychecks one night while having a few beers and I was stunned to find that I made more than he did - and I w*rked in a city with one of the lowest costs of living as opposed to NYC.

Jim, explain something to me that I never learned the details about: Most NYPD guys always told me that it made no economic sense to stay on past 25 years, and most guys I know retired around that time of service. Why is that?
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Old 07-12-2009, 03:38 PM   #43
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I know a lot of high-cost cities have trouble with paying cops, teachers and firefighters enough to compensate for the cost of living. It's not an easy thing to deal with, because many of these cities have high overall tax burdens already. Not sure there's an easy answer.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:38 AM   #44
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Yes,Alot of high cost cities do have trouble paying cops. But I dear you go to recruitment sites of some cities and you will see they are much better compensated then others. San Francisco starts rookies at $75,000,Boston pays more than NYC,even pays $5000 more for B.A. degrees.If you look at total compensation places like Arizona pay more(take home cars,etc). NYC is the hardest beat in the country,then add the NYPD itself actually tries to jam up there own cops. We have the only IAB that cant catch corrupt cops,but goes after cops cars ilegally parked(perk most cops get in any city)and jams up cops for not vouchering unmarked claim t shirts that they set up as a sting to catch cops,instead the cops gave the clothing to the poor and homeless.
Everyone will say teachers are underpaid but its funny NYC pays teachers among highest in country but cops among the lowest,strange.
LEONIDAS, as for your question about cops getting out at 25yrs ,my answer is it must have been an old timer from the old days or a house mouse(inside desk job). Truth is 80% leave at 20 yrs,, because at 20 you get 50% final 12 months salary,after 20 you only get 1.66 percent so at 25 yrs you would have 58% and max at 30 yrs 66%.most depts pay higher % after 20 NYC actually is telling you , you are worth less. Is it really worth staying another 5 years for 8% ? Mind you working holidays,nights and knowing any on duty or off duty accident or action can get leaked to press ,you get in trouble and fired you lose pension.Its A MYTH that a cop in trouble gets to retire,in NYPD administrative misconduct(in other words sloppy paper work,lol)can get you fired(rare ofcourse but NYS law says so).I know a guy,did something stupid ,but not criminal got fired with 1 yr left to retirement,he loses pension,everything.City looks at it as money saved to pad there own projects.
Fortunately smart cops retire at 20 yrs get 50% plus we get fixed $12000 pension supplement every december and dont stay longer risking their pension,then they either move to florida and retire ,or get another job. You will find retired NYPD cops working in towns across the usa ,seems NYPD cops are well respected in every other community but NYC,I know patrol cops retired became chiefs in small towns.But for the mentally challenged like myself , I WILL WORK IN MC DONALDS,but added to pension comes out the same as working. I did the calculation if i retire with $66,000 pension its the same as making $90,000(my salary)because only pay Federal tax on pensions,so I can stay home and have same spending money.Since pension not Cola'd the secret is to have half a million saved to help keep pension up with iniflation until social security. I always tell rookies,invest in 457k and then in 401k and put extra money in pension fund earning 8 1/2 %.There is no reason not to walk off this thankless job with $500,000 in your 40's.On the plus side retirees get free medical for whole family for life and union welfare fund pays most dental costs,prescription,and vision.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:58 AM   #45
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I attended my last academy with a guy who retired from NYPD. He was 40. I can't say if he was rounding or turned 41 while at the academy, but he said he was actually still employed with the NYPD. He was on vacation until his actual retirement date. He didn't detail any of the bad stuff your talking about, but overall he seemed like a rather positive guy, and expressed gratitude about finally being retired.

I was looking into NYPD a while back and noticed first year rooks made 50k including o/t. It seemed very low to me considering the cost of living and the amount of crap they had to deal with.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:38 AM   #46
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Hey lets-retire,as you said he was a rather positive guy, positive guys make the job work for them. Maybe he even had a good inside out of the way detail,heck idont know. You will find complainers in even the best depts. BUT the difference is morale is very low in the NYPD ,its not the job he came on in anymore and if it was soo great he would have stayed longer,but as i said NYPD is looked as a sinking ship by majority of members of the service. i met a retiree who told me he ritired asap because you dont run 27 miles in a 26 mile marathon,words I will always remember.Every retiree I know is quite positive and happy also,because the headache is over.
As for 50k thats great for a rookie a year earlier they made $25,000 base ,so with everything lucky to clear $35,000.They start out now with 10 days vacation , while previos rookies for as long as I can remember got 20 to start with.It was a give back for getting a raise.
Do you mind telling me what dept academy you were in,always interested in depts that don't have max age caps.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:26 AM   #47
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Kind of went to a police retirement instead of auto...

I decided to take a look at my locations info.... and I got to tell you it looks pretty nice for someone WITHOUT an college degree.. but then again, they don't pay much more for the college degree..



Here is Houston's pay...
Police Cadet / Probationary Police Officer *$29,164
Police Officer$ 38,602 - 53,622
Sr. Police Officer *$ 54,774 - 59,191
Police Sergeant **$ 66,208 - 72,186
Police Lieutenant **$ 74,321 - 81,021
Police Captain **$ 85,109 - 92,815
Assistant Police Chief$119,431 - 125,434
Executive Assistant Police Chief$137,977 - 144,963


It also says you get in the $10K for overtime... and I used to know cops and they got a LOT of money on their side job...

You START with 7 WEEKS time off... and get to 12 weeks plus 2 more counting holidays... I never knew it was THIS good...


GENEROUS BENEFIT PACKAGE
*During first year of employment officers will accrue 35 paid days off and increase to 60 paid days off per year plus 11 paid holidays.
*Excellent, affordable health insurance subsidized by City of Houston. Also includes vision screening and optional dental insurance.
*Defined Benefit Pension Plan with early retirement options
*Multiple Supplemental Retirement Plans
*Various Deferred Compensation plans available

Not sure if it is 20 and out... and can not find it on the site, but not looking hard....
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:36 PM   #48
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I decided to take a look at my locations info.... and I got to tell you it looks pretty nice for someone WITHOUT an college degree.. but then again, they don't pay much more for the college degree..
2 years college is required except for prior military and law enforcement. A bachelors becomes a requirement for Captains and a masters is required for Asst Chief's. Education pay is $3640 for bachelors, $6240 for masters and $8840 for doctorate. A law degree is more than $10K, but they only pay that to cop/lawyers who are assigned to legal affairs. (kind of ridiculous because the cop/lawyers I know are all making ten times that in their private practices).

The good this is they reimburse tuition and mandatory fees for anyone attending an accredited college/university (at Texas school rates).
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It also says you get in the $10K for overtime
Overtime cometh and overtime goeth. I wouldn't figure a budget on that. It's not unusual to walk in one morning and be told "there is no more overtime - work for comp time or go home".
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and I used to know cops and they got a LOT of money on their side job...
who slept a few hours here and a few there and their spouse had to show the kids his/her photo so they knew what their daddy/mommy looked like.
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You START with 7 WEEKS time off... and get to 12 weeks plus 2 more counting holidays... I never knew it was THIS good...
Okay, this is the city selling BS. Four of those Seven weeks are PFT - Physical Fitness & Training Hours. The city used to just pay everyone to go to training, or qualify with their weapons, etc. Now they give officers 20 days a year (supervisors 10 days) and make them go to training, annual firearms practice and qualification, annual physical agility testing, annual physical fitness testing, and police memorial duty all using PFT. And yes, you accrue those 20 days, but the accrual only lasts for one year, the time has no cash value unless the Department's staffing needs prevented you from taking it off, and every September any unused time is wiped off the books without compensation.

The other three weeks is not vacation time - but a combination of the old vacation time and sick leave called PTO (Paid Time Off). Lots of rules about scheduling vs unscheduled, abuse of time, accumulation, etc.
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Not sure if it is 20 and out... and can not find it on the site, but not looking hard....
Totally different website, and you need a password.

For everyone hired after October 2004:

Normal retirement age is 55 with at least 10 years of service.

Benefit is 2.25% of final average pay for each year of service for up to 20 years, and 2% for each year over 20 (20 years is 45%, 30 years is 65%).

Final average pay is regular wages and extra pays that are considered wages (language, college, education/training, shift/weekend differential payments, hazardous duty pay), and not things like clothing and motorcycle allowances, overtime, exempt pay (supervisor 'overtime'), and strategic staffing pay. Final average pay is computed as the average of the 78 pay periods prior to retirement (last 3 years).
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:07 PM   #49
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I bet if you add everything ,a senior officer is making aobut 80k with a b.s. degree. But then again you dont pay local taxes in texas so that brings pay similar to NY.But you can buy homes and stuff much cheaper in Texas.I am surprised ot not calculated in pension.The fact they pay almost 3000 more for masters,I think it a no brainer to get one with tuition being paid by city.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:55 AM   #50
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Hey lets-retire,as you said he was a rather positive guy, positive guys make the job work for them. Maybe he even had a good inside out of the way detail,heck idont know. You will find complainers in even the best depts. BUT the difference is morale is very low in the NYPD ,its not the job he came on in anymore and if it was soo great he would have stayed longer,but as i said NYPD is looked as a sinking ship by majority of members of the service. i met a retiree who told me he ritired asap because you dont run 27 miles in a 26 mile marathon,words I will always remember.Every retiree I know is quite positive and happy also,because the headache is over.
As for 50k thats great for a rookie a year earlier they made $25,000 base ,so with everything lucky to clear $35,000.They start out now with 10 days vacation , while previos rookies for as long as I can remember got 20 to start with.It was a give back for getting a raise.
Do you mind telling me what dept academy you were in,always interested in depts that don't have max age caps.
He could have just been happy to get his retired tin and be done with it. We never really got into the telling of war stories or stories about our last agencies. I know he said he didn't want to deal with the BS that came with promotions. I was attending a federal academy, that at the time didn't have an age limit. Now the age limit is under 37 years old, although that does not apply to preference eligible Vets.
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My response to the article...
Old 07-14-2009, 10:06 AM   #51
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My response to the article...

“What we’re getting isn’t enough to live on,” said Dwayne Humphries, a 54-year-old G.M. retiree in Arlington, Tex., who completed his 30 years last year…

For me, this indicates that he started work at G.M. in 1978. 401k plans were not put into place until Jan 1, 1980 when the law was put into place.

As for private IRA’s? Although those not covered by a private pension, or business owners could establish an IRA back in 1974, those who had a pension program (aka defined benefit) could not start saving until 1981.

Essentially, Humphries started employment under the “old system” – the one that my parents (and many of us old enough to remember) were the only retirement income program, beyond SS and personal savings (e.g. the old “3 legged stool”).

I know many folks on this forum are well educated, and may have families that saved/invested regardless of any government or employee benefit program. However, going back just a few generations would probably uncover “the common man”, which looked for a meager pension to help them in their old age.

As an example I will just talk about my (and my DW’s) grandparents. All eight immigrated to this country after WWI from both Eastern and Western Europe. All had educations only up through the primary grades, if they were lucky.

Our parents? Out of four, only one went/graduated from high school. The other three left school early to help support their family.

My wife/me? While HS graduates, we did not have the opportunity for higher education beyond that level. Our respective parents did not think of extended education to be a ticket to anything. In fact, at an early age, I was constantly told that when I graduated from HS, to obtain a “union job”; I “would have a good life” due to the union. I would say that the early industrialization of this country led many young folk (and their parents) to feel the same way.

Anyway, my wife/I did go to a 1-year technical school, where we did receive additional vocational training to get a job (this was the time before community colleges).

BTW, our son (3rd gen American) does have his BS/CIS, so there is a constant improvement as we go on.

Not to ridicule the folks mentioned in the article, but I can understand where “their time in life” greatly affected the outcome of their work, and their retirement.
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