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Old 10-18-2011, 10:58 AM   #21
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So what else is new.
Thus the quote "Making a mountain out of a molehill" ...
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:14 AM   #22
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I also think there's a distinction to be made about the so-called "99%". My understanding (could be wrong) is that it's not simply the "least wealthy" 99% of the population, but the 99% who are not politically connected because of wealth. Not all of the wealthy are part of what they perceive as the plutocracy -- and I think the "1%" for these purposes references the entities which are part of the plutocracy.

Plus, "we are the 99%" is a simpler catch-phrase than, for example, "we are the 99.62%" (or whatever).
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:07 PM   #23
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... the 99% who are not politically connected because of wealth. ...
Or, "the 99% who are not wealthy because they are not politically connected"

There is some substance to some of the complaints, but in my opinion, they ought to be spending at least as much time protesting Capitol Hill.

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Old 10-18-2011, 06:39 PM   #24
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Or, "the 99% who are not wealthy because they are not politically connected"

There is some substance to some of the complaints, but in my opinion, they ought to be spending at least as much time protesting Capitol Hill.

-ERD50
I think that's one of the things that makes this protest at least a little different (note that I didn't say correct). They realize that protesting the politicians isn't effective, that the corporations are often running things.

"Separation of corporation and state" is one of their cute catchphrases I believe.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:25 PM   #25
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I think that's one of the things that makes this protest at least a little different (note that I didn't say correct). They realize that protesting the politicians isn't effective, that the corporations are often running things.

"Separation of corporation and state" is one of their cute catchphrases I believe.
Could be, but it still seems mostly misplaced to me.

Corporations cannot affect laws/regulations unless a politician agrees to it, so it should still be the politicians that they should be directing most of that angst at.

If the cops are accepting bribes, should we complain about crooked cops, or bribe offer-ers? Sure, some blame rests on each of them, but it seems to me the bribe takers are the ones with the responsibility to serve the public, and the ones that should be held to a higher standard.

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Old 10-18-2011, 09:56 PM   #26
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Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To add some statistics regarding income, take a look at the above link.
Also from the Wikipedia, specifically on income inequality, on who is the most unequal (you'd never guess):
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A study done by University of Texas economists James K. Galbraith and Travis Hale found that most of the gains enjoyed by the top 1% came from a small number of counties, rather than a national trend. Almost all of the richest 1%'s gains occurred in the economic hotbeds of Silicon Valley and New York City. If the top four counties in those regions are removed, there is almost no trend[quantify] towards income inequality in the US in recent decades. On this basis, the researchers ascribe the recent growth in income inequality to the growth of information technology.[17]
Income inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:28 AM   #27
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I hope that when election time comes around, the competiting candidates discuss their concept of "wealth" in some dollars and cents detail that omits the vargaries, emotionalism and subjectivity that's going around today.
I don't think that is how modern campaigns are conducted, much less won. I expect this year's show to be considerably worse than even the hideous earlier ones.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:35 AM   #28
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Could be, but it still seems mostly misplaced to me.

Corporations cannot affect laws/regulations unless a politician agrees to it, so it should still be the politicians that they should be directing most of that angst at.

If the cops are accepting bribes, should we complain about crooked cops, or bribe offer-ers? Sure, some blame rests on each of them, but it seems to me the bribe takers are the ones with the responsibility to serve the public, and the ones that should be held to a higher standard.

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If there is money available to fund corruption, corruption will rise to absorb that money. Humans taken as a group seem to be almost infinitely corruptable. It's like if candy is available, children will eat it. Best to dry up the source of candy if you want children to eat less of it.

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Old 10-19-2011, 10:36 AM   #29
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From the article: "Most of those in the bottom half of the top 1% lack power and global flexibility and are essentially well-compensated workhorses for the top 0.5%, just like the bottom 99%. "

Just call me Trigger.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:46 AM   #30
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The Wall Street Journal has a calculator based on family income to detrmine where you rank.

What Percent Are You? - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Do you measure up ?
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:56 AM   #31
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So it only takes $1.2MM of investable assets to make it into the top 1% and only $1.8MM for the top 0.5% ?

As mentioned in the article that sure won't sustain a "wealthy" lifestyle very long.

I wonder about those figures.
I thought those figures thrown out were way too low.

This reference, that quotes 2004 US household net worth shows that (in 2004) to be in the top 1% that you needed $6MM

http://www.mynetworthblog.com/net-wo...-rich-o-meter/
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:15 AM   #32
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I've always felt that "household income" is a pretty inexact measure of affluence.

A household income of $200k for a family of four with two income earners is a lot different than a single person making $200k per year, but all of the discussions lump them together.

The family generally has a much lower tax rate than the single person (and higher living expenses).

Note also that they are talking about adjusted gross income, for the most part, so your participation in 401k plans can make a big difference in your ranking.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:16 PM   #33
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The Wall Street Journal has a calculator based on family income to detrmine where you rank.

What Percent Are You? - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Do you measure up ?
I'm pretty rank...
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:45 PM   #34
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With the income requirement I guess I'm closer to the original definition of a 1%er -Outlaw Biker- Than the top affluent category.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:23 PM   #35
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I am not sure why people are panning "the 1%."
Isn't it the American Dream to make it there?
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:51 PM   #36
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I thought those figures thrown out were way too low.

This reference, that quotes 2004 US household net worth shows that (in 2004) to be in the top 1% that you needed $6MM

http://www.mynetworthblog.com/net-wo...-rich-o-meter/
I was suspicious about these numbers too. I went to the Wealth Calculator that you listed, and ended up in the 84%, which seemed low according to the numbers that have been thrown around. They have a link to another calculator based on wealth instead of income - The Wealth Report - WSJ. I entered my number and came out at 97%, which while nice was certainly not in the 99+% range which is where some of the other comments would have me. These percentiles seem more likely to me.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:54 PM   #37
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I am not sure why people are panning "the 1%."
Isn't it the American Dream to make it there?
I suspect some of the folks not yet in the 1% are getting annoyed with the cleat marks on their shoulders.

Not to worry, though. Someday, everyone will be in the 1%, except for the slackers and the unmotivated. It'll be our Lake Woebegone moment.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:40 PM   #38
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I suspect some of the folks not yet in the 1% are getting annoyed with the cleat marks on their shoulders.

Not to worry, though. Someday, everyone will be in the 1%, except for the slackers and the unmotivated. It'll be our Lake Woebegone moment.
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:18 AM   #39
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:48 AM   #40
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