Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2019, 06:59 AM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962 View Post
Annuities and trusts would become very popular I think, though a net worth tax would probably apply independently to trusts so each would have to be less than the exemption.

More people will renounce U.S. citizenship.
There's always a work-around and the more wealth involved, the more options people have.

Back in the late 60's we had English neighbors who proudly claimed to be "tax exiles".
__________________

__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-12-2019, 07:06 AM   #42
Full time employment: Posting here.
USGrant1962's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
There's always a work-around and the more wealth involved, the more options people have.

Back in the late 60's we had English neighbors who proudly claimed to be "tax exiles".
Well, you can do that in every country in the world except U.S. and a couple of undeveloped nations. We're the only major country that taxes our citizens' (and green card holder's) worldwide income.

When I was working in UK tons of Brits in my company worked in the Middle East and would not come back to UK for projects for exactly that reason.
__________________

__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged

"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
USGrant1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 07:17 AM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962 View Post
Well, you can do that in every country in the world except U.S. and a couple of undeveloped nations. We're the only major country that taxes our citizens' (and green card holder's) worldwide income.

When I was working in UK tons of Brits in my company worked in the Middle East and would not come back to UK for projects for exactly that reason.
In addition to your list (which includes renouncing citizenship...we have friends who've already done that) I'd predict a bunch of countries changing their own tax code in order to become 'tax havens' with welcoming citizenship procedures.

But again, a good discussion but unlikely to become reality.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 07:45 AM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
By the way, some countries used to have a marginal rate as high as 4% for the wealth tax. And remember that they do not have that high an exemption level. Recall that it is 800,000 euros for France, .
This is false. It doesn't exist.
gerntz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 08:48 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962 View Post
Well, you can do that in every country in the world except U.S. and a couple of undeveloped nations. We're the only major country that taxes our citizens' (and green card holder's) worldwide income.

When I was working in UK tons of Brits in my company worked in the Middle East and would not come back to UK for projects for exactly that reason.


In France, before the tax law was changed recently, the wealth tax was levied on assets held worldwide by France citizens.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_tax_on_wealth

About the US, they are also talking about levying a huge tax, something like 40%, for people who want to renounce citizenship and leave the country. They are not dumb.

Some people still deny that wealth tax already exists or existed in many countries. There are plenty of precedents to learn about.

What is interesting is that many countries had it, then abolished it. The US is way behind them, and now wants to try it.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 08:55 AM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rianne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Champaign
Posts: 1,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clone View Post
I just received a text from Yang that he would give me $1000 each month. I think I will respond that he can forward that to Warren to pay for the wealth tax!
Wow, your NW is $50M? Congrats!
__________________
"If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
Rianne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I just thought about the thread where people boast of having zero WR from their stash because they can live off just pension and SS.

Will see if anyone can claim zero WR with a wealth tax as they have had in Europe. The government will do the withdrawal for you. And after paying you "negative interest rate" on your fixed income AA.

This is so funny. Life is full of the unexpected. It's wonderful.
Boast?

This post seems a little mean spirited. Do I detect a little green eyed monster within?
Vacation4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:07 AM   #48
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
I know for a fact Columbia has a wealth tax. Have a relative attempting to get dual citizenship Columbia/US. Not so easy plus they want to tax his wealth, rut row

Guess good ol merica ain’t as bad as he thought
Vacation4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:08 AM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,093
Sorry if it came off as being mean. I was just teasing people who are frugal and saving their money instead of spending it.

As for envy, I am spending less than 1/2 of what FIRECalc says I can spend, when SS is included. I was joking about myself too. I don't need or want to envy other people who are also frugal. In fact, I don't envy anyone right now.

My friend Robbieb here keeps encouraging me to blow the dough.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:21 AM   #50
Recycles dryer sheets
dirtbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerntz View Post
This is false. It doesn't exist.
It most certainly does exist. Well, technically it was mostly repealed last year. But they still have wealth tax in place for real estate over 1.3 million Euros, and there is a lot of real talk about attempting to re-implement it again next year.
dirtbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:32 AM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,093
Macron is under pressure to reinstate the wealth tax.

What I find surprising is that France wealth tax did not bring in that much, only 1.5% of the total tax revenues despite having an exemption not that high. Here in the US, a large percentage of Californians would be above the French threshold with just their home, let alone their investable assets.

Perhaps that's how there is not much wealth disparity in some countries. There are just not that many upper middle-class people. There are not many who can afford to retire early in these countries either. As FIREd described earlier, early retirement is practically unheard of in France. I suspect it is the same in other Western countries. They ask, how one can save enough to retire early with no pension. If you do not work, you must be a bum, or sell drugs.

The US is quite different than many countries, whether you take it as good or bad.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:54 AM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,065
As I pointed out on another forum, there are a couple of ways that a wealth tax could be implemented on IRS Form 1040:
(1) All taxpayers are required to report their Section XXX net worth each year (XXX = new tax code);
(2) Taxpayers check a box indicating whether their Section XXX net worth is greater than $50M. If not, they don't have to supply a net worth value. If so, they do.

Both of these approaches have serious problems. Further discussion invites Porky.
socca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 12:40 PM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 7,198
This could motivate me to take one of those world cruises, better to spend it than have it taxed away..
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 12:52 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,093
^^^^ World cruise, or wagyu beef and lobsters work well.

You buy a 2nd home, a boat, a plane, those are still assets and would be taxed under most countries' past wealth tax laws.

And it makes sense, if you think about it. No way they will let people convert stocks and bonds into real estate or a yacht to escape taxes.

But something that you eat, smoke, or drink, there's nothing left. Well, there is, but nobody wants it.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 01:03 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RunningBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8,293
How was the Florida intangibles tax enforced? It was repealed in 2007, but some here must have face it?
RunningBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 08:35 AM   #56
Moderator
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,517
In Florida, and other places that had intangibles tax, there was typically a "compliance problem"
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 08:50 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Senator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 3,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
This could motivate me to take one of those world cruises, better to spend it than have it taxed away..
Much of this envy has to do with people thinking the only reason they have not achieved, or that someone else has achieved, is luck.
__________________
FIRE no later than 7/5/2016 at 56 (done), securing '16 401K match (done), getting '15 401K match (done), LTI Bonus (done), Perf bonus (done), maxing out 401K (done), picking up 1,000 hours to get another year of pension (done), July 1st benefits (vacation day, healthcare) (done), July 4th holiday. 0 days left. (done) OFFICIALLY RETIRED 7/5/2016!!
Senator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 08:51 AM   #58
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,579
It is all scary in a way how taxes are going to be done and at what % we will have to pay. I would like to see a fair even lower % of tax and everyone pays no matter where they are in the financial ladder as far as income goes or wealth. There needs to be a long term percentage set in stone that we should all pay for tax deferred moneys. This thing about changing every four years when someone else new becomes a figured head of this counntry is BULL.
street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 09:24 AM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 25,093
People like to point to other countries to say the US tax is still too light.

In Sweden, the first 18,800 kronor in income is not taxed. After that, personal income is taxed at 32%, and going up. Above 675,700 kronor, it is taxed at 57%.

How much are those brackets? 18,800 kronor = US$2,000. 675,500 kronor = US$70,000.

The Value Added Tax (VAT) on goods is 25%, with food taxed at 12%.

SS tax is 32% each for employer and employee. The employee pays an additional 7% to contribute to the public system. These retirement contributions are however exempted from income tax. Otherwise, the taxes may add up to more than 100%, and you have to pay to work.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 09:30 AM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
Much of this envy has to do with people thinking the only reason they have not achieved, or that someone else has achieved, is luck.

Oh come on, didn't we nuke the recent "luck" thread fast enough for you?
__________________

stepford is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (2 members and 2 guests)
deanc, pipefitter
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Simple Wealth, Inevitable Wealth meleana FIRE and Money 20 02-28-2019 09:23 AM
IRA can be a taxing decision based on 2018 tax changes omni550 FIRE and Money 0 01-13-2018 01:07 PM
After tax funds in before tax 401k - rollover to IRAs jim584672 FIRE and Money 3 03-26-2014 05:32 AM
Best way to buy SPY for Roth? & Does tax efficiency matter in Roth? fatman22 Young Dreamers 0 11-24-2008 10:51 AM
Taxing the frail elderly Brat Life after FIRE 1 05-30-2005 12:28 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:34 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.