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Old 09-15-2019, 02:46 PM   #121
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When SS can't pay all its benefits requirements in 15 years or so, where they going to get it if not this way?
Increasing the payroll tax as before.
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Old 09-15-2019, 02:53 PM   #122
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Cut SS for people who do not need it?

All the people who say they have zero WR from their 401k/IRA? If that's not rich, then I don't know who is.
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Old 09-15-2019, 02:57 PM   #123
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Cut SS for people who do not need it?
First step: have recipients report NW so it is known who needs it or not.
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Old 09-15-2019, 03:03 PM   #124
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Robbieb has the right idea all along.


PS. Come to think of it, the government does not yet know if you have hidden gold coins or valuable collectibles. But they can easily know about your 401k, IRA, brokerage accounts etc... Investable assets such as stocks and bonds are so easily tracked, they do not have to ask you to 'fess up. You cannot hide these. If they ask you about these at all, it's only to see if you are trying to cheat.

The next things are planes, boats, RVs, lands, etc... It takes a bit more work with the state governments to get it, but they can do that too. Where are you going to hide? Rare stamps or Greek antiquities?
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Old 09-15-2019, 03:11 PM   #125
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If I didnít have to pay taxes, Iíd spend most of it on drinking and carousing, then waste the rest...

I consider my tax burden to be the HOA fee for living in the USA. Overall, itís a pretty good bargain, IMHO, of course.
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Old 09-15-2019, 03:18 PM   #126
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I do not mind paying taxes, but it bothers me when a guy who made the same money I did in our career, but blew it all instead of saving, gets preferential treatment because I get deemed rich, and he poor.

Less SS for me, and more for him because he "needs" it more than I do, even though we contributed the same.
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Old 09-15-2019, 03:22 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I do not mind paying taxes, but it bothers me when a guy who made the same money I did in our career, but blew it all instead of saving, gets preferential treatment because I get deemed rich, and he poor.

Less SS for me, and more for him because he "needs" it more than I do, even though we contributed the same.
+1
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:22 PM   #128
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In addition to this scheme there is the "tax cap gains annually and at the ordinary income rate" as well as the "dramatically lower the inheritance tax exemption" idea currently floating around.

What bothers me is that within the subtext of all these ideas is that there is a punitive tone to them. While couched in 'fairness' there seems to be more of a goal to simply punish those with greater wealth.

Yet, as I've often maintained, the rich have plenty of options to dodge such things. The predictions of income generated always naively assumes status quo vs the work of clever accountants, lobbyists, corporations and trusts. It always sounds good but most often falls far short of the mark.

Wake me if any of these ideas ever come to pass.
While we need to keep an eye on the lyin b******ds running the country I agree with your assessment. Just tell me the rules and I'll play the game. I've got no choice and I'm really not all that rich.
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Old 09-15-2019, 06:14 PM   #129
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Some have proposed a tax on a personís total net worth.

This sounds like a potential backdoor way to tax Roth accounts.

Or, am I turning into a cynical man of experience?
There's plenty of wealth that isn't contained within a Roth account.
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Old 09-15-2019, 06:27 PM   #130
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Even if the wealth tax is passed and proved successful to reduce the wealth of the ultra rich, can anyone be sure that it would result in raising the net worth of the poor?
What a question! I am forced to add you to my list of dangerous radicals who infest this site. Just relax, stop thinking, pay your fair share, and assume the money will go where it is most needed.

"Yond NW-Bound has a lean and hungry look. He thinks to much. Such men are dangerous." - with apologies to Shakespeare
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:31 PM   #131
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I do not mind paying taxes, but it bothers me when a guy who made the same money I did in our career, but blew it all instead of saving, gets preferential treatment because I get deemed rich, and he poor.

Less SS for me, and more for him because he "needs" it more than I do, even though we contributed the same.
+1 Kudos.
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Old 09-15-2019, 08:44 PM   #132
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I agree. To put in other words, you don't raise yourself by bringing others down. That is the root problem with all of the tax the rich proposals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I do not mind paying taxes, but it bothers me when a guy who made the same money I did in our career, but blew it all instead of saving, gets preferential treatment because I get deemed rich, and he poor.

Less SS for me, and more for him because he "needs" it more than I do, even though we contributed the same.
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Old 09-15-2019, 08:51 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
First step: have recipients report NW so it is known who needs it or not.
Sure, your forced to pay for an insurance produc(SScredits) by .gov and when someone else's .gov products they to were forced to pay for (SScredits) falls short for them because of their input you have your .gov products costs, sacrifices & plans disrupted. unreal
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Old 09-15-2019, 09:06 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I do not mind paying taxes, but it bothers me when a guy who made the same money I did in our career, but blew it all instead of saving, gets preferential treatment because I get deemed rich, and he poor.

Less SS for me, and more for him because he "needs" it more than I do, even though we contributed the same.

Preferential treatment would have to come from somewhere other than SS. If your wages were identical, wouldnít your benefit be similar, assuming a similar career length, of course.
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Old 09-15-2019, 09:27 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I do not mind paying taxes, but it bothers me when a guy who made the same money I did in our career, but blew it all instead of saving, gets preferential treatment because I get deemed rich, and he poor.

Less SS for me, and more for him because he "needs" it more than I do, even though we contributed the same.

Having to live in retirement on SS alone is sufficient punishment IMO for anyone that had the opportunity to save but didn't.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:29 PM   #136
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Preferential treatment would have to come from somewhere other than SS. If your wages were identical, wouldn’t your benefit be similar, assuming a similar career length, of course.
When money is needed, they may come up with a tax or some indirect method to claw back the SS if you have 401k/IRA/Roth. Taxmen can be very ingenious. I will not underestimate them.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:41 PM   #137
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When SS can't pay all its benefits requirements in 15 years or so, where they going to get it if not this way?
SS will always be able to pay. The money can be borrowed and printed.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:50 PM   #138
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I agree. To put in other words, you don't raise yourself by bringing others down. That is the root problem with all of the tax the rich proposals.
The argument for taxing the rich has always been that it provides funding to allow the government to enact social programs to help the poor. I am not against helping the poor, but it is not easy to define programs to really help them in the long run.

We need to create good jobs, not just to provide perpertual meals on wheel. Even the education assistance has proven quite costly and hurts the clueless college students more than it helps them. Jobs are created by private enterprises more than by the government. Maybe people blowing dough can create jobs better than the government knows how to.

Seeing negative interest rates in Europe makes me wonder why people do not invest in anything, and have to let the money sit there stagnant and get taken away. Do people have everything they need and there's no need to produce anything more? Nobody can come up with anything for workers to do?
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Old 09-16-2019, 02:45 AM   #139
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Well you can argue there have been tax laws which favored the rich the last 2-3 decades.

In any event, there is inequality, which has been growing during the same time.

Some people think it’s a problem hitch needs to b addressed, some don’t.
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Old 09-16-2019, 04:38 AM   #140
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I agree. To put in other words, you don't raise yourself by bringing others down. That is the root problem with all of the tax the rich proposals.
Conversely, do you raise everyone by cutting taxes for the rich?
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