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Old 03-22-2010, 09:44 AM   #61
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...something got passed...
ya got that right.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:56 AM   #62
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So what? "Universal" health insurance is the law of the land regardless of what happens in reconciliation. Let the "control cost first" crowd show their true colors by voting for tough cost control measures. I'm desperately anxious to see all of the tough amendments. I'm keeping a score card.
Yeah, one side of me agrees. Word is there are 51 senators who would agree to a public option so how about amending the bill to include a robust public option? But a deal is a deal. The House passed tyhe Senate bill on a good faith promise to pass reconciliation as is. They shuold deliver on that promise and separately introduce other changes.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:58 AM   #63
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They made me do it? Wow, just not buying that...
Yeah, put that way it does sound pretty lame. But, moving on the Republicans can either cooperate to make positive changes or choose to oppose, oppose.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:01 AM   #64
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They shuold deliver on that promise and separately introduce other changes.
If everyone agrees that the legislation needs improvement, there is no time like the present. The House reconciliation bill is an effort to improve the legislation, why stop there.

Surely there are 41 Republican senators and 10 moderate Democrats who could come together on a serious package of cost control measures . . . lets have at it.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:28 AM   #65
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:43 AM   #66
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I'm very happy that this has passed. In the past I've been denied individual health insurance coverage because of a pre-existing condition...and had a rider slapped on an insurance policy not allowing coverage of certain condition(s). I've also avoided seeing a doctor for aches and pains because I feared they might result in a new pre-existing condition. If you've ever been in this situation, hopefully you can understand the benefits of this and be glad that this was passed and that needed change is starting. Is this reform perfect? No, it's not, but you have to start somewhere. It will be changed as time goes on. So what you see today is not what you'll see 10 years from now. If the public dislikes it so much, they can vote the Republicans back into power and then they can change or dismantle it all.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:46 AM   #67
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Word is there are 51 senators who would agree to a public option so how about amending the bill to include a robust public option?
As I understand the reconciliation process, they can't do this. The reconciliation process is only to fix budgetary items in the original Senate bill. Introducing a public option would go beyond this and require a point-of-order ruling by the Senate parliamentarian, and likely be disallowed. Such an amendment would then require 60 votes in the Senate, which it couldn't get even prior to the Republicans picking up the Massachusetts Senate seat.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:50 AM   #68
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As I understand the reconciliation process, they can't do this. The reconciliation process is only to fix budgetary items in the original Senate bill. Introducing a public option would go beyond this and require a point-of-order ruling by the Senate parliamentarian, and likely be disallowed. Such an amendment would then require 60 votes in the Senate, which it couldn't get even prior to the Republicans picking up the Massachusetts Senate seat.
The whole purpose of the Public Option is to introduce more competition driving down cost. The Parliamentarian would smile on that amendment. Be careful of what you wish for. Opening the bill to amendments at this point opens Pandora's Box.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:25 AM   #69
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As I understand the reconciliation process, they can't do this. The reconciliation process is only to fix budgetary items in the original Senate bill. Introducing a public option would go beyond this and require a point-of-order ruling by the Senate parliamentarian, and likely be disallowed. Such an amendment would then require 60 votes in the Senate, which it couldn't get even prior to the Republicans picking up the Massachusetts Senate seat.

That is my understanding too. Which is why it is a perfect forum for all of the deficit hawks to strut their stuff.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:30 AM   #70
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The whole purpose of the Public Option is to introduce more competition driving down cost. The Parliamentarian would smile on that amendment.
Well, go for it then. As you know, the original House bill passed last August had a public option in it, so there's probably a decent chance that it could pass the House again. And polls seem to show that the public supports a public option. My opinion is that it is a stretch of the reconciliation process, and the parliamentarian (who is supposed to be impartial) would not allow it. But that's only my opinion, and I could well be wrong. In any case, it woulld be interesting to watch.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:30 AM   #71
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So for me, back to "how does this bill affect us and the people in our lives?".
In the short-term, I'm going to sleep easier knowing that my individual health insurance policy is more stable and secure.

In the medium-term, I'm going to sleep easier knowing that I can move to a different state and not have to worry about qualifying for new insurance.

In the long-term, I'm going to sleep easier knowing that run-away medical costs have risen to the level of national importance rather than simply being ignored as an individual problem.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:44 AM   #72
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In the short-term, I'm going to sleep easier knowing that my individual health insurance policy is more stable and secure.
.
While it may be marginally more secure, it is still subject to adverse selection if the healthy folks in your pool leave for a cheaper alternative, and you can't switch until 2014 because you have developed a "pre-existing condition".

What about those less fortunate folks who currently can't pass underwriting and can't afford the currently available high-risk pools or guaranteed-issue insurance. It appears that they will have to wait until 2014.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:06 PM   #73
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Abortions are not funded under the health care bill.
Due to a last minute executive order, which only has a shelf life as long as fresh produce........
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:07 PM   #74
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While it may be marginally more secure, it is still subject to adverse selection if the healthy folks in your pool leave for a cheaper alternative, and you can't switch until 2014 because you have developed a "pre-existing condition".

What about those less fortunate folks who currently can't pass underwriting and can't afford the currently available high-risk pools or guaranteed-issue insurance. It appears that they will have to wait until 2014.
I can wait until 2014. And while not perfect, 2014 is better than never, which was the alternative.

And remind me what the opposition's solution to these problems were?
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:09 PM   #75
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If everyone agrees that the legislation needs improvement, there is no time like the present. The House reconciliation bill is an effort to improve the legislation, why stop there.

Surely there are 41 Republican senators and 10 moderate Democrats who could come together on a serious package of cost control measures . . . lets have at it.
Not gonna happen with Pelosi treatening everyone........
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:26 PM   #76
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Not gonna happen with Pelosi treatening everyone........
Fortunately Pelosi is in the House, while I was talking about the Senate.

But the same holds for Harry Reid, so point taken.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:28 PM   #77
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The whole purpose of the Public Option is to introduce more competition driving down cost.
I want to believe this but the government has rarely shown that it can run things too efficiently. The employment in those "public" entities, be it education, package delivery and transit tend to become like social programs with benefits we can't afford -- and we are repeatedly faced with service reductions or tax/fee hikes to continue to sweeten the deal for those employees or sustain the unsustainable for a couple more years. Look at the cost of education, K-12 adjusted for inflation per pupil.

Total and current expenditures per pupil in public elementary and secondary schools: Selected years, 1919–20 through 2005–06

Look at this table per student in constant 2007 dollars:

1960: $3,272
1970: $5,161
1980: $6,549
1990: $8,923
2000: $10,360
2006: $11,643

Again: constant dollars per student. Is public K-12 education almost twice as good today as in 1980? Or 3.5 times better than it was in 1960? That's what we're paying for it today. So why are schools starving today when they weren't in 1960? Is that public option cost control at work?

I have no reason to believe that a "public option" in healthcare would do anything but include highly compensated public employees with a strong union and unaffordable benefits the private sector can only dream about. And I don't see the crowd that wants the "public option" putting limits on trial lawyers or junk lawsuits, either.

This is no anti-government rant. I'd like for a public option to work. But government's track record in running affordable and cost-conscious enterprises is terrible, largely because they are in denial that it's not 1960 any more and the kind of public sector employee benefits we could afford back then are no longer sustainable in today's global economy.

Public sector employment costs simply can not grow faster than the private sector employment costs any more. Businesses and private sector employees simply can't bear that burden any more.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:30 PM   #78
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I want to believe this but the government has rarely shown that it can run things too efficiently. The employment in those "public" entities, be it education, package delivery and transit tend to become like social programs with benefits we can't afford. Look at the cost of education, K-12 adjusted for inflation per pupil.

Total and current expenditures per pupil in public elementary and secondary schools: Selected years, 191920 through 200506

Look at this table per student in constant 2007 dollars:

1960: $3,272
1970: $5,161
1980: $6,549
1990: $8,923
2000: $10,360
2006: $11,643

Again: constant dollars per student. Is public K-12 education almost twice as good today as in 1980? Or 3.5 times better than it was in 1960? That's what we're paying for it today.

I have no reason to believe that a "public option" in healthcare would do anything but include highly compensated public employees with a strong union and unaffordable benefits the private sector can only dream about. And I don't see the crowd that wants the "public option" putting limits on trial lawyers or junk lawsuits, either.

This is no anti-government rant. I'd like for a public option to work. But government's track record in running affordable and cost-conscious enterprises is terrible, largely because they are in denial that it's not 1960 any more and the kind of employee benefits we could afford back then are no longer sustainable in today's global economy.

Public sector employment costs simply can not grow faster than the private sector employment costs any more. Businesses and private sector employees simply can't bear that burden any more.
You make great points, but to combat your numbers, the education talking heads would merely apply an inflation number and say the spending levels are the same, in inflation-adjusted dollars.........
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:31 PM   #79
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The whole purpose of the Public Option is to introduce more competition driving down cost.
Like that would work in reality..........
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:57 PM   #80
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You make great points, but to combat your numbers, the education talking heads would merely apply an inflation number and say the spending levels are the same, in inflation-adjusted dollars.........
he said it's in 2007 dollars, read the post before you talk
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