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Old 03-22-2010, 03:47 PM   #121
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In fact, my nephew ran for Congress in 1992 proposing essentially that (he was a Tsongas fan)
Interesting - did he, by chance, run against Connie Morella? My in-laws were very active in Democratic Party politics in Montgomery County back then.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:55 PM   #122
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Seems like a lot of people around here are happy to have Medicare waiting for them to get a few years older. And no one seems to be proposing to abolish Medicare despite the fact that it will take a substantial influx in funding to fix. As to the public option, if no one would sign up for a public option why is the insurance industry so frightened of it? And don't pile on with the canard that it's losses would be covered by tax dollars. It was to be structured as a stand alone program that had to rely on on premiums to fund its costs. It ain't rocket science to make that an iron clad requirement.
You quote me as agreeing that it's not a good sign when the authors of the new "reform" aren't impacted by it themselves. Then you make the above post. I don't see the connection. Perhaps you quoted one thing and inadvertantly responded to another?
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:03 PM   #123
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I hope that it makes it easier or cheaper for me to get insurance for those exciting 17 - 18 months when COBRA has run out and Medicare hasn't kicked in.
It will likely make it easier (no pre-existing conditions issue) but not cheaper unless your timing is right and your income is low enough to qualify for a subsidy. (I'm assuming you're healthy.) If you don't qualify for a subsidy, it is likely to be more expensive but will have more expansive coverage and fewer limitations or exceptions.

If I needed to buy an individual policy to cover the gap to Medicare, I'd like this bill. I have medical issues and having guaranteed access and paying the same rates as healthy folks would be a good deal. Thanks healthy folks!
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:34 PM   #124
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It is my view that if we had two grown up parties that each wanted to solve the same problem we would now have a far better bill.
Yes. YES.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:37 PM   #125
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And like I said initially. I'd really like everyone who favors a "small government" alternative to think through the complexities of insuring a chronically sick person. When they work the problem from that direction, you come to the conclusion that something similar to the current bill is about the least invasive way possible to actually solve the problem.
The crux of the problem: Who wants to insure a chronically sick person?
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:46 PM   #126
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The crux of the problem: Who wants to insure a chronically sick person?
The other crux of the problem:

What "small government" devotee wants to talk about insuring chronically sick people?
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:51 PM   #127
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The Bill was not perfect... but IMO - It was was better than nothing.

Unfortunately our elected representatives and senators are more interested in playing politics than working together (bi-partisan) to optimize a solution.... Both parties are guilty of gamesmanship and special interests!
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:52 PM   #128
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IMO, in the end, the passage of this bill had nothing to do with the bill itself. Maybe it was just me, but while watching the coverage of the proceedings last night, neither side gave me the impression they really gave a sh*t about health care reform- this was pure partisan politics at it's worst.
The whole partisan complaint is getting real old. Do you honestly believe that more than just a handful of Republicans wanted anything to pass? It appeared to me that they were mainly just looking towards the 2010 elections and making Obama and the Democrats look as bad as they could. And yes, the Republicans suceeded and will gain more control and possibly even a majority during the 2010 elections. But I seriously doubt they really wanted any health care reform to pass.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #129
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So for me, back to "how does this bill affect us and the people in our lives?".

-ERD50
It gives me a lot more security in knowing that my health insurance company won't drop my insurance given any excuse.
I am also much happier that some people in my shoes won't be denied ANY coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

This allows me to plan much more effectively for future medical expenses. And thus, increase my investments (as I no longer need such an oversized 'what if' cushion).
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:15 PM   #130
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Interesting - did he, by chance, run against Connie Morella? My in-laws were very active in Democratic Party politics in Montgomery County back then.
Yes. Eddie graduated from Tulane and came down with cancer a few weeks later with his health insurance in jeopardy (the Tsongas connection). He worked as a staffer on the Hill during his years getting back to health. He and his friends and family saw that the Connie Morella's popularity kept effective dem organizers out of the primaries. They realized they could run a focused campaign and take the democratic side of the ticket. They achieved that but then got slammed in the election. Eddie ended up as White House Liaison and then, Chief of Staff, at NASA a few years later.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:24 PM   #131
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BTW, I don't see any of the folks who voted for this bill agreeing to sign themselves and their families up for it. Or am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by youbet View Post
And that's the acid test. . .. .

I know it's subjective, almost silly, but I just can't get excited about reform where the authors work so hard to ensure they're able to go forward with their current circumstances.
Yup, you're missing something. It turns out this legislation passes the "acid test".

From Section 1312 of the bill . . .

Quote:
16 (D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EX
17 CHANGE.—
18 (i) REQUIREMENT.—Notwithstanding
19 any other provision of law, after the effect
20 tive date of this subtitle, the only health
21 plans that the Federal Government may
22 make available to Members of Congress and
23 congressional staff with respect to their serv
24 ice as a Member of Congress or congres
25 sional staff shall be health plans that are—

158
HR 3590 EAS/PP

1 (I) created under this Act (or an
2 amendment made by this Act); or
3 (II) offered through an Exchange
4 established under this Act (or an
5 amendment made by this Act).
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:35 PM   #132
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...If I needed to buy an individual policy to cover the gap to Medicare, I'd like this bill. I have medical issues and having guaranteed access and paying the same rates as healthy folks would be a good deal. Thanks healthy folks!
I don't believe you are gaurenteed the same rates, just access. Not sure though, anyone know the current details of that?
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:20 PM   #133
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I don't believe you are gaurenteed the same rates, just access. Not sure though, anyone know the current details of that?
I think the exchanges will offer what he wants but they are not available for several years. In the meantime states will have to set up "high risk pools" for people who can't get other insurance - they will probably be expensive and I don't know when the subsidies kick in for them. Interestingly, something like that was set up by DC and my daughter was forced into it when BCBS refused her for an individual policy. The DC pool (also BCBS) ended up cheaper than the single policy she was refused.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:22 PM   #134
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I don't believe you are gaurenteed the same rates, just access. Not sure though, anyone know the current details of that?
That to me is the 64 trillion dollar question and I don't know the answer. I have heard that they have to provide the same rates. But I am not going to read the bill and I don't believe the people who reported this (right wing web stite) read it either. Presumably there have to be limits, cause if you can offer a person with HIV but charge them 10K/month that is more or less the same as not covering pre-existing conditions.

It seems wrong that somebody that lost their job and has an chronic illness due to bad genes/luck is denied coverage. It seems equally wrong that somebody that has a disease cause primarily by by lifestyle choices e.g. excessive eating, drinking, smoking, unprotected sex etc should pay the same premium (and be subsidized) by people who didn't do stupid things.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:31 PM   #135
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The whole partisan complaint is getting real old. Do you honestly believe that more than just a handful of Republicans wanted anything to pass?
The Dems pushed aside ANY plans the Republicans wanted to put forward.

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It appeared to me that they were mainly just looking towards the 2010 elections and making Obama and the Democrats look as bad as they could. And yes, the Republicans suceeded and will gain more control and possibly even a majority during the 2010 elections.
First of all, the Dems made themselves look bad without any help. Second, I'll bet that November will tell us the real story.......
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:36 PM   #136
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:41 PM   #137
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The Dems pushed aside ANY plans the Republicans wanted to put forward. .
Except it is nearly identical to what Olympia Snowe said she wanted, contains something like 100+ Republican amendments, is similar to what the Republicans put forward as their alternative to "HillaryCare" in 1993, and is almost indistinguishable from what Mitt Romney and Scott Brown put in place in Massachusetts.

But other than that, it is completely devoid of Republican influence.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:56 PM   #138
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Except it is nearly identical to what Olympia Snowe said she wanted, contains something like 100+ Republican amendments, is similar to what the Republicans put forward as their alternative to "HillaryCare" in 1993, and is almost indistinguishable from what Mitt Romney and Scott Brown put in place in Massachusetts.

But other than that, it is completely devoid of Republican influence.
Olympia Snowe is a RINO. The only reason she runs as a Republican is the voters in Maine lean that way. A Blue Dog Dem is more conservative than she is..........
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:01 PM   #139
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Olympia Snowe is a RINO.
That is the problem in a nutshell. Anyone who is willing to compromise is excommunicated from the clergy. Thus, no compromise. On anything. Ever.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:21 PM   #140
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Yes. Eddie graduated from Tulane and came down with cancer a few weeks later with his health insurance in jeopardy (the Tsongas connection). He worked as a staffer on the Hill during his years getting back to health. He and his friends and family saw that the Connie Morella's popularity kept effective dem organizers out of the primaries. They realized they could run a focused campaign and take the democratic side of the ticket. They achieved that but then got slammed in the election. Eddie ended up as White House Liaison and then, Chief of Staff, at NASA a few years later.
Thanks, donheff, for sharing that. You must be very proud of your nephew.
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