The Moment of Truth

[samclem]

Seems the talking heads are largely in agreement that the hints during Day 1 indicated the court will rule on the issue rather than kicking it down the road.

Regarding today: Much is being made of Justice Kennedy's perceived skepticism regarding the constitutionality of the mandate. If he truly sees things that way, it's very significant.

[l2ridehd]

I know it's not possible to get really close estimates of cost, but so far the CBO has doubled the estimate from the original amount. It is a bit scary when it has not even started and the estimate of cost has doubled. That means if it follows other CBO cost estimates the actual cost will end up around 4 times original estimates as reality is usually double what they guess.

[Brett_Cameron]

Hmmm, Post 23 is here.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem Seems the talking heads are largely in agreement that the hints during Day 1 indicated the court will rule on the issue rather than kicking it down the road. Regarding today: Much is being made of Justice Kennedy's perceived skepticism regarding the constitutionality of the mandate. If he truly sees things that way, it's very significant.

Like a good Justic, Kennedy didn't really tip his hand as he pointed out both sides...

Conservative justices criticize individual mandate

[Major Tom]

Well, the mandate is a significant piece of proposed legislation. As was noted, there is a heavy burden of proof on the government. We should expect heavy critique. If it's upheld, then it will be a testament to how well it was conceived and written.

We probably won't get many clues until June, but it won't stop the speculation.

[Texas Proud]

I think we will go a LOT farther than 30 or 33...




And yes, padding the count

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom ....If it's upheld, then it will be a testament to how well it was conceived and written.

Given how poorly conceived and written virtually everything coming out of DC is these days if it needs to be well conceived and written in order to be upheld then that makes me feel a lot better.

(3 posts left?)

[samclem]

The debate is good to see. Shame on any HS civics teacher who isn't using the present hearing, the legislative battle that preceded it, and the involvement of the executive branch as a case study in the fundamental purposes of the three branches of government and the wisdom of the drafters of the Constitution.

[powerplay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem The debate is good to see. Shame on any HS civics teacher who isn't using the present hearing, the legislative battle that preceded it, and the involvement of the executive branch as a case study in the fundamental purposes of the three branches of government and the wisdom of the drafters of the Constitution.

I agree and appreciate hearing the issues being brought out in the debate. We still have to wait till June before we know how SCOTUS will rule.

[unclemick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud I think we will go a LOT farther than 30 or 33... And yes, padding the count

This is a bogus thread. I think somebody mugged Porky. Plus like a fool I watched some coverage on Peter Rose(PBS) and my ears shut down and my eyes glazed over.

So how much was the pool up too anyway?

heh heh heh -

[FinanceGeek]

Just today, a big move in the information markets (now at 56% likely to strike down):

Intrade - The US Supreme Court to rule individual mandate unconstitutional before midnight ET 31 Dec 2012 is 56.8% probable

[harley]

Hmmm...I have post 32, so...

These guys over here are right, and anybody over there is a moron! And God (or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) is on our side! And...darn it, y'all and your pig have ruined my ability to obnoxiously argue politics.

[Major Tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley Hmmm...I have post 32, so... These guys over here are right, and anybody over there is a moron! And God (or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) is on our side! And...darn it, y'all and your pig have ruined my ability to obnoxiously argue politics.

No, no, NO - you've got it the wrong way round - the guys over THERE are the imbeciles, and the country's going to hell in a hand-basket if they get their way.

[Huston55]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem The debate is good to see. Shame on any HS civics teacher who isn't using the present hearing, the legislative battle that preceded it, and the involvement of the executive branch as a case study in the fundamental purposes of the three branches of government and the wisdom of the drafters of the Constitution.

+1

I attended high school in Northern Virginia during Watergate, and had the good fortune to have a Government teacher who turned the entire class into a Watergate workshop.

[Huston55]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Only if I lose the pool.

Starting a pool about the constitutionality of the government starting a pool...

...the sweet irony.

[Old Microbiologist]

I am constantly shocked that we Americans have given up completely on the idea of universal coverage as a Federal expense. It is absolutely insane what I see going on in the US and the costs incurred. Obama care appears to have benefited the insurance companies more than the people using the system. It also amazes me that we can be constantly at war with multiple wars simultaneously at horrendous costs and no one even thinks that is abnormal. To not give health care as a benefit to Americans is crazy. Prior to Medicare costs in the US were normal and affordable. Doctors were not millionaires. Hospitals were not corporate businesses and non-profit was the status quo. But, after Medicare things got out of control through poorly managed payment systems which gave the green light to doctors and insurance companies to start making serious money. It snowballed from there and we now have this horribly costly and ineffective system we have today. Health care should not be a business. It should be performed at adequate levels to everyone on an equal basis and should be guaranteed in our Constitution. Maybe that is a socialistic idea but who said that was a bad thing? I served in the US Army for 28 years and nothing is more socialistic than the military. I have the worst possible health care coverage that the military offers despite my being promised free health care for life. I suffer under Tricare Overseas which pays roughly 65% of costs. My wife and I moved to Hungary where health care is a state run operation, all doctors are civil servants and all have close to the same salary which is roughly $2000 a month. All of them operate private clinics in the evening for patients like us who are willing to pay cash. Expenses are very low and roughly 10% or less of those in the US. We are not covered nor will we be ever covered by the Hungarian National Health system but we do pay cash and it is easily affordable. Even catastrophic care is cheap here. Why Americans don't just rise up and demand basic human rights from our government I cannot understand. Has anyone ever tried to figure out what the government does with our tax dollars? I can't see it doing anything for me directly. So, I am happy to reap the benefits from the former Soviet system here. I have a lot of friends who are doctors and all are doing relatively well here and despite their low official salaries they still are among the top 10% earners in the country. But, here anyone earning more than $40K is considered rich.

[pb4uski]

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Oh well, it had to happen eventually. only 6 posts later than projected.

[MichaelB]

We can keep the thread going. Let's just move right along...

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem The debate is good to see. Shame on any HS civics teacher who isn't using the present hearing, the legislative battle that preceded it, and the involvement of the executive branch as a case study in the fundamental purposes of the three branches of government and the wisdom of the drafters of the Constitution.

Or as a case of legislative abuse of government............ The individual mandate is simply a removal of our personal freedoms, nothing more, nothing less, and really has little to do with insurance, but much more about entitlement. The govt solicitor got his head handed to him yesterday.......

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by borschelrh I am constantly shocked that we Americans have given up completely on the idea of universal coverage as a Federal expense. It is absolutely insane what I see going on in the US and the costs incurred. Obama care appears to have benefited the insurance companies more than the people using the system. It also amazes me that we can be constantly at war with multiple wars simultaneously at horrendous costs and no one even thinks that is abnormal. To not give health care as a benefit to Americans is crazy. Prior to Medicare costs in the US were normal and affordable. Doctors were not millionaires. Hospitals were not corporate businesses and non-profit was the status quo. But, after Medicare things got out of control through poorly managed payment systems which gave the green light to doctors and insurance companies to start making serious money. It snowballed from there and we now have this horribly costly and ineffective system we have today. Health care should not be a business. It should be performed at adequate levels to everyone on an equal basis and should be guaranteed in our Constitution. Maybe that is a socialistic idea but who said that was a bad thing? I served in the US Army for 28 years and nothing is more socialistic than the military. I have the worst possible health care coverage that the military offers despite my being promised free health care for life. I suffer under Tricare Overseas which pays roughly 65% of costs. My wife and I moved to Hungary where health care is a state run operation, all doctors are civil servants and all have close to the same salary which is roughly $2000 a month. All of them operate private clinics in the evening for patients like us who are willing to pay cash. Expenses are very low and roughly 10% or less of those in the US. We are not covered nor will we be ever covered by the Hungarian National Health system but we do pay cash and it is easily affordable. Even catastrophic care is cheap here. Why Americans don't just rise up and demand basic human rights from our government I cannot understand. Has anyone ever tried to figure out what the government does with our tax dollars? I can't see it doing anything for me directly. So, I am happy to reap the benefits from the former Soviet system here. I have a lot of friends who are doctors and all are doing relatively well here and despite their low official salaries they still are among the top 10% earners in the country. But, here anyone earning more than $40K is considered rich.

What's the population of Hungary? Not apples to apples..........