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Old 02-15-2009, 08:00 PM   #21
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National sales tax, abolish IRS. Exempt essentials like basic food items. Everyone pays as much tax as they want to. You want a fur coat? Go for it, thanks for the 10% contributed to the general fund. Get rid of the construction lobby, tons of other lobbying efforts for exemptions, etc. That's my dream.
Let's create a new country laurence! I hear Iceland is up for grabs
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:10 PM   #22
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National sales tax, abolish IRS. Exempt essentials like basic food items. Everyone pays as much tax as they want to. You want a fur coat? Go for it, thanks for the 10% contributed to the general fund. Get rid of the construction lobby, tons of other lobbying efforts for exemptions, etc. That's my dream.
In your dream, I suggest that you drop the "Exempt essentials like basic food items.".

That is a slippery slope, and it is already accounted for in the "pre-bate" that accompanies some proposals for an NST. By offering a "pre-bate" that is equal to the tax on basic necessities, it is all covered.

If we let Congress decide what is and is not "essentials like basic food items", then we have the congress-critters deciding if lobster is food or luxury, or gum, or Mountain Dew, or beer, or anchovies, and we have the anchovy lobbyists hanging out in our Capital.

It is a dream, but we might as well make it a pure dream. Tax everything, give 'em a "pre-bate". End of story dream.

-ERD50
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:36 PM   #23
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Sounds like the tobacco settlement all over again.
If you mean that the lawyers are going to end up with most of the money, I guess I have to agree with you.
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:43 PM   #24
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had a good laugh watching tim pawlenty on news hour last week critizing and faulting the stimulus and then when asked would he accept the money....
well...yeah...

he and all governors dem & rep will accept that damn government money...
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:45 PM   #25
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Of course, and while we are at it, how much stimulus is Main and Pennsylvania going to get!
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:51 PM   #26
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had a good laugh watching tim pawlenty on news hour last week critizing and faulting the stimulus and then when asked would he accept the money....
well...yeah...

he and all governors dem & rep will accept that damn government money...
But I don't see it as hypocritical or wrong at all. It's like the tax code--there are tons of provisions in it with which I disagree. Still, I take every deduction I'm allowed. I even write my Congressman to urge repeal of some of them that benefit me-but I take them all when computing my taxes. Pawlenty (and Palin) should take every dime Washington sends their way. They can use the money to offset expenditures and lower the tax burden on their state residents, thus accomplishing what Washington won't.
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:53 PM   #27
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Even Ron Paul plays the earmarks game. He doesn't like it, but it's the only game in town, and if he's going to be his people's representative he owes it to them to bring home the pork roast.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:31 AM   #28
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had a good laugh watching tim pawlenty on news hour last week critizing and faulting the stimulus and then when asked would he accept the money....
well...yeah...

he and all governors dem & rep will accept that damn government money...
And why not? Keep in mind that these governors -- even if they were opposed to the "stimulus" -- are going to see their own state's taxpayers paying billions of dollars in taxes to pay for it. So if my state government wasn't fighting to get back what its citizens had to pay in for it, I'd consider them derelict in their duties. It's not like opposing it means their state's residents can opt out of paying for it and opt out of receiving benefits from it.

Then again, we've used "federal funds to the states" as a way around that pesky, inconvenient 10th Amendment for decades now in order to effectively blackmail the states into doing what the feds want. Never mind that those funds originally came from taxpayers of those states.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:59 AM   #29
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And why not? Keep in mind that these governors -- even if they were opposed to the "stimulus" -- are going to see their own state's taxpayers paying billions of dollars in taxes to pay for it. So if my state government wasn't fighting to get back what its citizens had to pay in for it, I'd consider them derelict in their duties. It's not like opposing it means their state's residents can opt out of paying for it and opt out of receiving benefits from it.

Then again, we've used "federal funds to the states" as a way around that pesky, inconvenient 10th Amendment for decades now in order to effectively blackmail the states into doing what the feds want. Never mind that those funds originally came from taxpayers of those states.
You know what would simplify things and make me happy?

If the federal government could only collect taxes from a state and not its residents. Let the feds fight to convince the states to give them money instead of having states fight to try and get back a little of the money taken from its taxpayers.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:24 PM   #30
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The "rational/analytical" looks at this bill and says, "how does this address the issues and restore faith in the economy?". If there is no evidence of that, they are not in favor of it. They see it as more money down the drain, an overall negative.

The "emotional/reactionary" looks at this bill and says, "Ohhh! I see they have money in there to support my favorite hot-button topic. I support this bill because, you know, we need to do something!!!". They see it as an overall positive, not through any measure, but just on an emotional response level.

Oh, just my 2 cents. The essence of our "overblown" "overleveraged" economy was based on easy credit for many years. We considered this healthy.

To me, it was never healthy, it was sick. It was based on assumptions that everything will continue to rise in value and the market will take care of itself. Well, the market took care of itself, and burst. The weak businesses based on overleveraging and putting out poor products, such as auto's deserve to fail. Bad bus models should not be subsidized.

Oh, another thing. Car sales way down. Doesn't this tell us that we don't really need a new car every three years, perhaps every 10-12 years.

Banks: You can't force them to lend, they have to sort of catch their breath, they were bad and now they are scared, opposite of greed, and are doing the classical thing scarred people do, hide under the bed. They will come out when they feel it's safe. Should we throw money at them, yes, just enough to keep them solvent, so they don't close their doors.

The overblown, overinflated economy based on much crap we don't need, needs to rest for a while, that is what is happening. We need to perhaps rethink things, perhaps go to an economy based on what is needed, not what makes a profit quick. Perhaps we need to contract, then grow at a slower rate, save a bit more, build up our reserves, sort of balance ourselves.

Those of us who live below our means, know all of this, we just need to "infect" the rest of the country.

jug

I don't know for sure, but in my day-to-day meetings with people there seem to be far more "emotional/reactionary" types than "rational/analytical" types. So Congress responds to the majority.

-ERD50[/quote]
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #31
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Oh, just my 2 cents. The essence of our "overblown" "overleveraged" economy was based on easy credit for many years. We considered this healthy.

Who is the "we" you refer to. Not me.

BTW, I think your quoting got garbled up in that last post. Watch the [] and [/] quote thingies.

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Old 02-16-2009, 03:20 PM   #32
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politicians of any stripe pander and posture to us voters and contributors to keep on being elected...very few are principled...if their voters and contributors changed course they would follow...even john mccain will get what he can for arizona and his contributors...

i think this was just theater...they will want that wasteful spending the more for their district and state the better...those that showed they were against it will hope that it fails and look good while gladly taking the money...if it succeeds then they can say they were able to restrain the ones that voted for it and enjoy the benefits of that money that came their way...
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:21 PM   #33
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California! Arnold and the boys. World's 8th ? largest economy.

Canary in the coal mine?



heh heh heh - are we having fun yet? Hmmm. .
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:59 PM   #34
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California! Arnold and the boys. World's 8th ? largest economy.

Canary in the coal mine?



heh heh heh - are we having fun yet? Hmmm. .
Our neighbor stopped by and gave us a sample of cured venison - her husband works a lot over the line in Kansas ans IS/WAS ? expecting a big refund of state taxes withheld last year.

heh heh heh -
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:09 PM   #35
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Our neighbor stopped by and gave us a sample of cured venison - her husband works a lot over the line in Kansas ans IS/WAS ? expecting a big refund of state taxes withheld last year.

heh heh heh -
I wonder how many people are making trips down to HR to fill out a new W4 to make sure that not a penny more than necessary is taken out of their paycheck?

That should help state budgets

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