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Old 01-16-2019, 03:58 PM   #41
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My thoughts - the EU was not formed to deal with trade, or barriers, or security needs. It was formed to prevent the horror of war within Europe (two devastating, devastating wars within 25 years) from happening again. It has developed further as these other considerations became more clear. European countries, individually, were tiny before the might of the USA, the Soviet Union, China. A more united Europe could establish a more equal footing. It is a remarkable achievement. Individual nation-states voluntarily surrendering some sovereignty to achieve a better life for their inhabitants. In this, it has been successful. The standard of living of Europeans has increased. But the same issues caused by capitalism exist in Europe: the more recent redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. As the ruling groups are unwilling or unable to address this problem, they end up dealing with the symptoms.
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:03 PM   #42
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The Brexit issue is because 64 per cent of young people did not bother to take themselves down to the polling station and cast their ballot, they didn't think it could possibly happen. Very similar to what happened in the US 2016 election. Elections have consequences.
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Beststash View Post
The Brexit issue is because 64 per cent of young people did not bother to take themselves down to the polling station and cast their ballot, they didn't think it could possibly happen. Very similar to what happened in the US 2016 election. Elections have consequences.
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:25 PM   #44
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The Brexit issue is because 64 per cent of young people did not bother to take themselves down to the polling station and cast their ballot, they didn't think it could possibly happen. Very similar to what happened in the US 2016 election. Elections have consequences.

So true
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:56 PM   #45
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They should just take the hard break and join NAFTA 2.0

I can tell you that when I was living there there were more than a few people who said they would rather be the 51st state than be in the EU....




I do not think the hard Brexit will be as bad as people think... first, no money to pay... second, the EU gets a lot of stuff from the UK and I would think they would want to continue to do so...


After the hard Brexit then the two sides can actually discuss an agreement on equal footing... right now the UK is in a bad negotiating position...
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:52 PM   #46
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After the hard Brexit then the two sides can actually discuss an agreement on equal footing... right now the UK is in a bad negotiating position...
+1
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:11 AM   #47
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While it can't always be avoided, I don't think 50% +1 type votes do justice in polling public opinion on a topic, particularly complex issues. I try to research as much as I can before voting for stuff and I still end up wishy washy. IMO, referendums should be non-binding and it really needs to hit more of a 60%+ threshold to obtain a mandate even though it's a tough target to hit on divided issues. There's talk about running a second referendum but I don't see it happening.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:11 AM   #48
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Wasn't it the 'refugee crisis' and the resulting acceleration of the so-called 'Islamization' of England, that put things over the top, and got the Brexit referendum started?
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:17 AM   #49
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Wasn't it the 'refugee crisis' and the resulting acceleration of the so-called 'Islamization' of England, that put things over the top, and got the Brexit referendum started?

At the very least it was the recognition by certain parties that the weaponization of this 'crisis' could be an effective political tool.

[Just waiting for the Mods to delete both our posts]
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:04 PM   #50
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May's deal is officially dead. No Deal gets a vote tomorrow, which will fail. Then delay is the next vote. Looks like Brexit, if it happens at all, will not be hard. Some Norway variant, with FoM much more likely now.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:40 PM   #51
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At the very least it was the recognition by certain parties that the weaponization of this 'crisis' could be an effective political tool.

[Just waiting for the Mods to delete both our posts]
The EU is a bit like a scratchy shirt. Not that comfortable for the diversity of economies and viewpoints.

EU drawing a hard line so as to not make it easy for future "defectors".
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Brexit = Hotel California
Old 03-15-2019, 09:48 AM   #52
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Brexit = Hotel California

You can check out anytime you like,
But you can never leave.
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A series of Brexit votes have taken place in the Commons:
On Tuesday, MPs rejected Mrs May's withdrawal agreement for a second time by 149 votes
On Wednesday, MPs voted to reject the idea of the UK leaving the EU without a deal under any circumstances
Then, on Thursday, the Commons voted by 413 to 202 to seek an extension to Article 50 - the legal mechanism by which the UK is due to leave the EU
From BBC, here https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47579033
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Here we are again
Old 03-15-2019, 09:55 AM   #53
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Here we are again

I'm not a betting person, but this I would bet on, a national re vote, as stated in my previous posts here. Three months is plenty of time.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:56 AM   #54
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I am not sure they will ever leave. Seems like a bunch of posturing to waste taxpayers money and appease the Leave crowd, who probably were not aware of or even bothered to research the ramifications when they voted.

We (DW & me) are watching carefully, as we are considering in moving back to the UK which traditionally had a reasonably sane governing body. We would be in the Remain camp if we lived there now.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:59 AM   #55
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I am not sure they will ever leave. Seems like a bunch of posturing to waste taxpayers money and appease the Leave crowd, who probably were not aware of or even bothered to research the ramifications when they voted.

We (DW & me) are watching carefully, as we a considering in moving back to the UK which traditionally had a reasonably sane governing body. We would be in the Remain camp if we lived there now.
Ditto
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:09 AM   #56
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I left there, (eagerly) at age 17, almost 60 years ago. Other than a cousin and her husband (in our age group) who, due to family obligations, are now too old to relocate, (and other than the fact that I don't want to see any of our investments disrupted).....I pretty much feel the same as I did looking out the airplane window as our final flight took off from Riyadh.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:37 AM   #57
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Ditto

Ditto x2.


Many things in the UK have changed for the better since I left 42 years ago. Mostly due, directly or indirectly, to EU membership. In my opinion.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:54 PM   #58
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I'm not a betting person, but this I would bet on, a national re vote, as stated in my previous posts here. Three months is plenty of time.
One issue with a three month delay is that it pushes Brexit past the EU elections in May. If that happens the EU will have to contend with a fair number of British anti-EU MEPs in Brussels/Strasburg.

It also feeds into the already existing impression that the EU encourages revotes until the "correct" answer comes up. Of course the revotes stop at that point.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:19 PM   #59
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They need the hard exit now so they can negotiate a new deal with EU on equal terms.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:41 PM   #60
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I don’t think there is going to be a hard exit.

It’s been an interesting process.
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