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Old 12-13-2018, 02:07 PM   #21
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I must admit, it has been really handy to be able to move around in the EU, and stay as long as I like, simply by wielding my Red EU Passport. I would hate to lose that privilege.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:27 PM   #22
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But navy blue is such a better color. I've been partial to burgundy.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:26 AM   #23
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Since "no deal" is the default for March 29 and no one will agree on anything, I think this ends in a no deal Brexit. May will survive her VoNC as Tory Remainers will not break ranks. Then she just runs out the clock to March 29 and a crash out happens. I don't think the markets are looking at this correctly right now. The pound will get crushed.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:08 AM   #24
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There needs to be a national re vote. I'm not sure many Brits understood the big picture of Brexit.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #25
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There needs to be a national re vote. I'm not sure many Brits understood the big picture of Brexit.
That may be true, but I'm not a big fan of "re-votes". So if one group doesn't get their way, they just get to ask for a do-over? Best 2 out of 3? Best 3 out of 4 or 5? Where does it end?

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Old 01-16-2019, 09:45 AM   #26
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That may be true, but I'm not a big fan of "re-votes". So if one group doesn't get their way, they just get to ask for a do-over? Best 2 out of 3? Best 3 out of 4 or 5? Where does it end?

Be careful what you wish for.

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+1
A slippery slope for sure.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:50 AM   #27
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+1
A slippery slope for sure.
Definitely.

Also if there is a revote that ups the chances that Scotland revotes on independence from the UK.

It's been fascinating to observe how crafty the remainers have been to overrule the vote and get their way.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:10 PM   #28
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It's a long, complicated issue.

I just remember 1970 when we came up on the Italy/Austria border south of the Brenner Pass. Heavy trucks were backed up 10 miles+, and it took the truckers hours to cross the border. Then they had to cross the German border shortly going north. The borders were highly inefficient for commerce.

And the currency stabilation was another issue. I'd hate to see how many zeros would be in the Italian lire vs. the U.S. Dollar today had the Euro not come into place. But if you get down to it, the Euro is essentially the German Mark revalued and with the name changed.

There has always been hard feelings between England and many countries in the European Union. England has a short memory of WW II, especially about some of the countries like Germany. The EU was to try to get the countries on the same side--somewhat. Germany has been the winner in the progress side--economically.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:17 PM   #29
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I think ordinary people have a better understanding of Brexit and what it means to their future. The grass is always greener before a divorce.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:55 PM   #30
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There needs to be a national re vote. I'm not sure many Brits understood the big picture of Brexit.

Democracy empowers the people to make decisions. It does nothing to protect them from making choices that they later regret. Better that the people screw things up than some centralized power screws things up for them.

Having a do-over vote puts democracy on a slippery slope and IMHO would do more damage than a messy Brexit.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:16 PM   #31
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Democracy empowers the people to make decisions. It does nothing to protect them from making choices that they later regret. Better that the people screw things up than some centralized power screws things up for them.

Having a do-over vote puts democracy on a slippery slope and IMHO would do more damage than a messy Brexit.
How is a do over putting centralized power in control? In the U.S., we can vote a candidate out of office, which is a do over in a sense. We understand who they are and if they're not performing as we thought, in 2, 4, or 6 years we can re vote. The Brits cannot change this decision. Once out of the EU, they're screwed.

Theresa May was against Brexit. I happen to agree with her initial view on the subject. Not that I sympathize with the Brits, it's their problem.

https://www.euronews.com/2018/12/12/...view-on-brexit
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:35 PM   #32
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Having a do-over vote puts democracy on a slippery slope and IMHO would do more damage than a messy Brexit.

Does it really? Parliament represents the public who voted for them and they can't agree on Brexit. Maybe this is just the sort of check that the country needs to allow them to rethink things. Maybe this puts direct democracy on a slippery slope, but is an example of the strength of representative democracy.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:26 PM   #33
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The problem is Brexit was never defined. It has multiple variations. The people are asked a question that is too vague. The nuances make a huge difference. The referendum was non binding legally and it was poorly constructed. They only did it because they thought it would fail. Parliament has never been for Brexit.


I think May will do what she wants and ignore Parliament. The time is too short by design, she will run out the clock.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:43 PM   #34
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I think ordinary people have a better understanding of Brexit and what it means to their future. The grass is always greener before a divorce.
Agree with sentence one. Respectfully and vehemently disagree with sentence two.

Been there - done that (now happily with DW for ~30 years).
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:47 PM   #35
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I think ordinary people have a better understanding of Brexit and what it means to their future. The grass is always greener before a divorce.
I take it you haven't been divorced?
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:59 PM   #36
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There needs to be a national re vote. I'm not sure many Brits understood the big picture of Brexit.
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I think ordinary people have a better understanding of Brexit and what it means to their future. The grass is always greener before a divorce.

You'll have to pick one.

Just like they did.

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Old 01-16-2019, 03:01 PM   #37
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+1
A slippery slope for sure.
+2

Never ending referenda by disgruntled electoral blocks until they get their way are incredibly tiresome and destructive.

I'm Canadian. Ask me how I know.....
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:02 PM   #38
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That may be true, but I'm not a big fan of "re-votes". So if one group doesn't get their way, they just get to ask for a do-over? Best 2 out of 3? Best 3 out of 4 or 5? Where does it end?

Be careful what you wish for.

-ERD50

Heck, it happens all the time here.... whenever there is a vote to increase taxes or start up a new taxing district it can be voted down a few times but then they get creative and make the vote on a day nobody knows about...


One time I had to go to someone garage to vote against a tax increase... guess what... it passes as there were very very few people who actually voted... like 1% of registered voters put a tax on us forever...


This has happened to me at least 5 times over the years...


I will say that this past year the school district lost their bond election and good on them they have said they are not going to put it up for another election...
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:10 PM   #39
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A simplistic answer is that a majority of the British wanted most of the upsides of being in the EU without the downsides and compromises that are involved, or having your cake and eating it too. That cannot be done. The EU has no reason to give the British what they want, or others in the union would want that too, and it would fall apart. The result is stalemate. Britain will have to lose the economic benefits if they want to leave, or keep the compromises is they want to stay.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:30 PM   #40
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They should just take the hard break and join NAFTA 2.0
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