Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
We Just Paid Over $750,000 for EACH GM Job Saved?
Old 06-02-2009, 02:36 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,968
We Just Paid Over $750,000 for EACH GM Job Saved?

Unless my math is wrong, we are now on the hook for $50B with GM $20B spent and $30 promised.

Last night on CNN their CFO said the new GM will have about 40,000 hourly and 25,000 salaried in the USA.

So taxpayers are on the hook for a little over $769,000 for EACH GM job. As far as I am concerned, that's an unconscionable outrage. And who says it won't be more...

These are still jobs that pay far more wages and benefits than most Americans enjoy - including a lot of taxpayers who make less but are now on the hook to help them. The nonsense about two tier wages is smoke, who do you think gets laid off, the senior top tier guys or the second tier? All the other millions of Americans who have lost their jobs, just can't offer up the UAW campaign contributions/voting block, so they get --- nothing. They are on their own. That's crap.

I have been writing my Congressmen all along and even more so now. Hopefully others are too.

And in case you are wondering why I did not use the 200,000 or so GM employees worldwide as my denominator - I am upset enough about spending a fortune on US autoworkers, I certainly don't feel any obligation to save jobs outside the US with my tax dollars.

End of rant
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-02-2009, 02:42 PM   #2
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
End of rant
...for now.
__________________

__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Unless my math is wrong, we are now on the hook for $50B with GM $20B spent and $30 promised.

Last night on CNN their CFO said the new GM will have about 40,000 hourly and 25,000 salaried in the USA.

So taxpayers are on the hook for a little over $769,000 for EACH GM job. As far as I am concerned, that's an unconscionable outrage. And who says it won't be more...

These are still jobs that pay far more wages and benefits than most Americans enjoy - including a lot of taxpayers who make less but are now on the hook to help them. The nonsense about two tier wages is smoke, who do you think gets laid off, the senior top tier guys or the second tier? All the other millions of Americans who have lost their jobs, just can't offer up the UAW campaign contributions/voting block, so they get --- nothing. They are on their own. That's crap.

I have been writing my Congressmen all along and even more so now. Hopefully others are too.

And in case you are wondering why I did not use the 200,000 or so GM employees worldwide as my denominator - I am upset enough about spending a fortune on US autoworkers, I certainly don't feel any obligation to save jobs outside the US with my tax dollars.

End of rant
How's that for "redistribution of wealth"??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 04:12 PM   #4
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
How's that for "redistribution of wealth"??
... its a start!
__________________
Westernskies is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 06:33 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 595
There is a certain group of people that believe that the intention of an action is what makes it valuble, and not the result of that action. As in.... we want to "help" the workers of GM. Sounds good.... helping people and all. However, if you were to show the facts of the matter, 700k per person comming from the taxpayer, they would actually get mad at you for pointing out the facts, and the truth. For this group of people, the outcome is of little to no consequence. As long as they can "believe" they are helping people, that is good enough. (This explains why they get mad when you point out the truth, you are stopping them from believing they are helping people.). It is a belief system that in my opinion, borders on a mental disorder. I am curious what a psycologist would make of it.
__________________
armor99 is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 06:55 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor99 View Post
There is a certain group of people that believe that the intention of an action is what makes it valuble, and not the result of that action. As in.... we want to "help" the workers of GM. Sounds good.... helping people and all. However, if you were to show the facts of the matter, 700k per person comming from the taxpayer, they would actually get mad at you for pointing out the facts, and the truth. For this group of people, the outcome is of little to no consequence. As long as they can "believe" they are helping people, that is good enough. (This explains why they get mad when you point out the truth, you are stopping them from believing they are helping people.). It is a belief system that in my opinion, borders on a mental disorder. I am curious what a psycologist would make of it.
It's been my experience (at work) that reducing these arguments to something people can relate to, often $'s, actually makes most people come to their senses. The remaining group that just wants to help, 'don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up,' are fortunately the minority - and they usually come around (or shut up) because the majority do change their thinking.

I am not against helping GM employees or anyone else, within reason. But that's why I did some numbers, there is no plausible way I can imagine to put $760,000 per job in the "within reason" category, it's lunacy IMO. Especially since most everyone else losing their job in this mess will get no special help, and the rest of us are paying for it.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 06:55 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Look at the bright side we also get 60% of the company, and $9 billion in bonds and preferred stock with a 9% coupon. It is certainly possibly that GM will emerge as profitable company. So while I am sure that the $20 billion we spent initially is wasted money, I think there is a 1/2 chance that the 30 billion debtor in possession financing will be repaid. So it may only cost $300-400K per job.
__________________
clifp is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 08:07 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,666
That number is interesting, but doesn't really give an accurate picture. It is more emotionally provoking than useful.
Let me say I am and have been against the bailouts. But I don't think one needs to resort to emotional grandstanding to get that point across.
By this reasoning, how would you feel about an organization in which the taxpayers by $200,000 per employee just for the last year and has paid a similar amount over each of the last number of years, and probably will continue to do so in the future?
How about a small business with 15 employees that borrows 30 Million dollars?
Holy COW, that is $2,500,000 per employee, there must be something corrupt going on there.
Frankly, I don't think GM is going to change and I don't believe we will be repaid any of the money invested. Total waste of funds and will sink us deeper in debt. The same money used to invest in a number of small companies or upgrading our electric grid would be far more advantageous to us and our economy (IMO).
__________________
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
(Ancient Indian Proverb)"
Zathras is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 08:56 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post

So taxpayers are on the hook for a little over $769,000 for EACH GM job.
Consider yourselves lucky. I think us Canucks paid over $1M.
__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 09:39 PM   #10
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
There really is a limit on the number of times we can all repeat our ideological talking points. Time to move on to something more useful.
__________________

__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
And I thought that 750,000,000,000 was a big # !!! mickeyd Other topics 0 09-27-2008 02:44 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:35 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.