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What were they thinking?
Old 04-14-2012, 03:55 PM   #1
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What were they thinking?

Thinking with the wrong head. But they will be eligible for 99 weeks of UC.

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The 12 agents were immediately recalled to Washington.
“Their careers are over,” said Kessler. “Number one, it is against basic ethics to go to a prostitute,” he continued. “Number two, it is incredibly embarrassing to the White House.” “And number three,” he continued. “It could leave them open to blackmail and a possible assassination attempt.”

Read more: Secret Service agents busted because they refused to pay hooker: source* - NY Daily News
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:37 PM   #2
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I feel like I'm a contestant on "Jeopardy".

"How do you make a hormone?"

-ERD50
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:28 PM   #3
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From what I hear on the evening news, at least this was during off-duty hours for the secret service agents.

So, probably no tax payers dollars involved for payment

Guess the agent had a different idea of what it meant for "secret service"
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I feel like I'm a contestant on "Jeopardy".

"How do you make a hormone?"

-ERD50
I don't know, have you ever heard a hormone.
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Business as usual
Old 04-15-2012, 02:30 AM   #5
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Business as usual

I have worked for the military for 40 years and did a lot of work in overseas assignments many of which are exotic and all have legalized prostitution including Uzbekistan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Peru, Honduras, Ethiopia, Panama, and others. This has always been a problem for staff on TDY assignments, particularly to exotically poor places with high levels of prostitution (meaning inexpensive). In many places I have been they keep on staff at the 5 star hotels (Like the Inter-Continental chain) in the lobby very high level prostitutes as part of the hotel's business. But, this behavior shouldn't be condoned or even tacitly approved by ignoring the problem. Everyone is constantly barraged with not doing this kind of thing as part of the mandatory country briefings. What this indicates to me is that there is a significant slip in the moral climate within the administration. You have to remember that these are not "ordinary" staffers or guest visitors but Secret Service personnel. These folk have constant access to the most sensitive information there is in our government and they all get a lifestyle polygraph as part of their 6 month validation of their TS-SCI clearances. You can't hide this behavior so what went wrong here is that they were caught and not that there was an overt attempt to cover this kind of behavior up. It is an indicator of how Americans, and in particular our government, perceive themselves among other host nations. Yes, prostitution exists legally in many countries but just because it is there doesn't mean these guys should take advantage of it. But, here we see that it may be commonly accepted behavior as long as it is kept discrete. Not a good situation for our government as our country, because of our puritanical background, is not accepting of legalized prostitution which makes someone participating from the US subject to black mail and this is the main reason it should not be condoned. It also sends mixed messages to the host nations and provides leverage against the US. In short it is disastrous. I also believe it is a crime as well for agents to do this not just behavior requiring termination. It will be interesting to see where this goes after the "15 minutes of fame" period ends.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:23 AM   #6
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Does this have anything to do with ER or FI?
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:35 AM   #7
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Does this have anything to do with ER or FI?
...these guys will be on ER starting now...so, maybe some new members joining the forum? I'll be on the lookout!

FI is not likely.
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:10 AM   #8
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Does this have anything to do with ER or FI?
Maybe the soon-to-be-retired agents can post in the thread "What did you do today"?
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Does this have anything to do with ER?
Old 04-15-2012, 06:27 AM   #9
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Does this have anything to do with ER?

Peripherally, maybe. If you examine this from the perspective of living abroad then it has some pertinence (good or bad depending on your views). For instance here in Hungary where we retired to, prostitution is legal and accepted (and of course I do not participate although my neighbors are always trying to get me to go). In fact in my town there are 3 licensed brothels, one of which is 3 blocks from my house. Out in the countryside women stand by the roads waiting for customers and there seems to be one every couple of miles. I point that out as social mores differ drastically from place to place and may seem to be very strange to many Americans. Germany is very similar to Hungary in many ways and this is an accepted part of society there as well but the practice is limited to particular licensed areas. I used to command a unit in Landstuhl and participated on the City council of Kaiserslautern (friendly military relations and liason for the Community as we were mutually dependent on keeping the soldiers from misbehaving too much). Anyway, one of the members of the city council was a prostitute herself so it was not deemed to be a social stigma. Germany is definitely not a poor country so it is merely a social norm there as it is for many countries. So, to be shocked that Secret Service and military guards were using prostitutes is not all that unusual in these places. But, it must not be condoned for security not moral reasons. So, anyone contemplating retirement abroad must be aware of these kinds of issues. For me, this case serves as a perfect example of the kinds of dangers that lurk out there for unsuspecting, naive, or stupid people.
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:39 AM   #10
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From what they said on the news I watched was that it was 'discovered' because of failure to pay...

Maybe the girl wanted a bit more money and complained.... maybe the agents thought they could pull a fast one... but I am surprised on the number of people that were partaking...
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:13 AM   #11
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From what they said on the news I watched was that it was 'discovered' because of failure to pay...
They didn't take credit cards?
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #12
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They didn't take credit cards?
Tried to pay with their government CC. Oh no that was GSA.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by easysurfer View Post
From what I hear on the evening news, at least this was during off-duty hours for the secret service agents.

So, probably no tax payers dollars involved for payment

Guess the agent had a different idea of what it meant for "secret service"

No politicians were involved, so apparently no taxpayer dollars were involved for payment.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:46 PM   #14
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The scandals widens:

Exclusive: Secret Service Bragged About Protecting Obama While Partying At Colombian Brothel - Yahoo! News

Guess the guys never heard of the term "loose lips sink ships" or watched "The Sting" when Robert Redford almost gets shot by the waitress from the diner.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:36 AM   #15
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If no payment was involved, was it really prostitution, or only 'attempted' prostitution? lol
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:43 AM   #16
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If no payment was involved, was it really prostitution, or only 'attempted' prostitution? lol
From the bits that I've heard on the news, there was payment, and services provided (all legal there), but some disagreement over the total amount due.

I recall hearing a $47 number in dispute at some point. That yahoo news video link mentioned that services at the club start at $150, and they supposedly were drinking top-shelf whiskey and hired the most exclusive girls.

If that's the case, someone's realizing that was a very expensive $47.

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Old 04-18-2012, 08:15 AM   #17
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If no payment was involved, was it really prostitution, or only 'attempted' prostitution? lol

I know you are joking.... and I am sure one of the law enforcement people on this board will know for sure.... but from what I have heard or read, all it takes is a verbal contract...
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:20 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
From the bits that I've heard on the news, there was payment, and services provided (all legal there), but some disagreement over the total amount due.

I recall hearing a $47 number in dispute at some point. That yahoo news video link mentioned that services at the club start at $150, and they supposedly were drinking top-shelf whiskey and hired the most exclusive girls.

If that's the case, someone's realizing that was a very expensive $47.

-ERD50

I have heard the $47 also... one of the radio stations suggested that this was a conversion and that the real number in local currency would be more of a round number (IIRC they said 8,000 or 8,500)...

And I bet it was one LBYM guy who did not want to pay 'his fair share' when others were probably doing more of the costly things...

I wonder if all will lose their jobs... from last night, it seems that it is bigger than first thought... 20 or more girls...

And you know they had to have done this at other locations....
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:16 PM   #19
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I know you are joking.... and I am sure one of the law enforcement people on this board will know for sure.... but from what I have heard or read, all it takes is a verbal contract...
In the US, generally, the act of solicitation is sufficient to meet the elements of the crime.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:30 PM   #20
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Shocking, military members visiting prostitutes. I've never heard of that before (<- sarcasm).
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