They're trying to give away our SS!

[proud_texan]

I'd be interested in hearing other's opinions about this issue:

GAO Report on U.S./Mexico Social Security Agreement Due Soon

A General Accounting Office (GAO) report investigating a controversial agreement that could put millions of Mexican aliens onto the Social Security rolls is expected shortly. In our June issue, "The Social Security & Medicare Advisor" reported that a proposed U.S./Mexico Social Security totalization agreement was under negotiation and might be in place by as early as October.

http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/101968.asp.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Hello proud Texan. I know nothing about the particular
issue (adding Mexican aliens into the SS system), but
I do have a general opinion (surprise surprise .

We are in an age of politically correct nuttiness.
Thus, if the governemnt (any level) decides that it
would be "kind" or "helpful to the huddled masses", or
maybe just expedient to buy votes, our money will be thrown at the problem in massive
amounts. There are not that many things you can count on in life, but you can count on politicians wasting your money.

 

[unclemick]

Whatever happened to the old fashioned way - young alien marries dirty old man - they live cheap abroad - she collects widows benefits! BTY - in the 80's we knew a retired navy guy/bahama moma who did that - hasn't sent us a christmas card in ten years or so?

Are these aliens going to be paying into ss when I become eligible in six years?

 

[proud_texan]

I think the key thing to remember here is that we're talking about "illegal" aliens. If they had to pay SS taxes because they worked here illegally, well then too bad. That's what you gotta do if you want to be in the system and elect not to follow the rules.

Should they get benefits? I don't think so. There are such things as work visas and green cards. If someone is here legitimately and they put money into the system, THEN they're entitled.

I just received my latest statement from the SSA and the amount of my estimated payments at age 62 has
dropped almost $800 from last year's estimate even though I contributed an additional year.

If the system keeps getting drained by schemes like this there won't be much left for us or our childeren who are and have been paying into the system legitimately for years. :-/

 

[haha]

I just received my latest statement from the SSA and the amount of my estimated payments at age 62 has
dropped almost $800 from last year's estimate even though I contributed an additional year.

This sounds quite odd. Could you give us more detail as to what you mean, "my estimated payments has dropped $800..."? Has your estimated benefit at age 62 also dropped?

The only thing I can think, you still have some time before age 62, and your wages last year were maybe a bit lower than the average of your adjusted wages prior to that year. SS benefits are figured by an algorithm which has not changed recently.

Mikey

 

[proud_texan]

Actually, I made more last year than the year before and have steady increases for the last few years.

I don't have my SS report in front of me, so I can't tell you exactly what the numbers are, but I did notice that there was a little blurb on my Aug 03 Report that was not on the November 02.

It said something about the fact that they can adjust the rates anyway they deem necessary.

I'm only 50, but in November of last year my estimated earnings at age 62 were close to $1500 per month.

I recently requested a report and received it last month and my payments had dropped to below $1000.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Something is fishy! I suggest you make some inquiries.
I have always found my SS update to be pretty
straightforward and understandable. It's one area
that I find the government doing a good job for me.
Of course, I haven't started to collect yet :.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Yup, I agree my Social Security statements have always made sense and never had any surprises like you are describing.

Something is amiss here. Get out your last few statements and go over them line by line first, if you still find a descrepancy then contact someone at the SS admin ASAP.

If find the Government also very good at the SS dept. Also the IRS is very efficient at collecting taxes. A lot of folks knock the Government but the FDA, FAA, our National Parks are superb! -

It's good that someone is around to regulate business. I'd hate to see Enron and Worldcom running the show!

 

[Telly]

"It's good that someone is around to regulate business. I'd hate to see Enron and Worldcom running the show! "

Yes, but who is around to regulate GOVERNMENT? And don't say "the people", Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Government doesn't have to be efficient. In its all-supreme monopoly position, it just taxes or fees more to cover its "development", "manufacturing", and "scrap" costs.

We were not given a choice of whether to chip in to SSA or not. We had to. Dollar for dollar, is it an "efficient" system? Is the IRS really "efficient" in collecting taxes, or is the proper description "effective"?

 

[Telly]

Sorry. Cut-Throat's sneaking in of socialistic comments got me off topic.

Proud_Texan, are you sure you are reading the correct line on them? If you were, well, hey, we appreciate the extra 800 bucks and will spend it wisely

 

[Cut-Throat]

Yes, but who is around to regulate GOVERNMENT?

Tired old lines.

People can regulate the governement. They just need to educate themselves on the issues. But sadly, they don't. Most cannot even name their congressman from their own district. 99% of Amercians cannot even name the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court. They are guided by their predjucies and simple minded greed and yes their simple minds.

If you don't like our government, you can always leave the country and try to find a better one.

 

[unclemick]

I submit that we are voting - in the way we structure our ER portfolio's - for many (did I mention I'm INTJ AND left handed) our representatives are our mutual fund managers - well paid judging from the lastest ER homepage article - but I don't plan to unelect mine and go 100% individual stocks -yet.

 

[Telly]

Cut-Throat, it is obvious that you and I will not agree on politics and what the exact role and reaches of government should be.

But if you look back through this website, I think you will find that my very few comments here on government or politics have been in response to your interjection of your political beliefs into the topic posts of others.

Your comment that I can "always leave the country and try to find a better one" does not sound very inclusive, nor does it encourage diversity.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Go Telly go! When I was in defense contracting I had to
fill out some sort of security clearance form. One question was "Do you support the overthrow of the
government by force or violence?" I always checked
violence .

 

[unclemick]

I love big government- my pension comes from the largest defense contratactor in the country and all my nephews are career military. My brother in law however is a mining engineer and has a view more like johngalt. As a retired engineer - I would love to see more attempts a cost benetfit ratios, simulation models, 'management' expenses, benchmarks applied to government -big and small. At least we have FIREcalc.

 

[proud_texan]

I called the Social Security Administration this morning and the person I spoke with could give me no explanation as to why my projected benefit had dropped even though my income had increased. She indicated that this was only an "estimate" and that it would be refigured when I actually start drawing benefits.

So, I went online and entered the numbers myself and danged if it wasn't even lower. After I factored in this year's earnings, it was greater than the orginal estimate. How screwy.

 

[Ted]

I'd be interested in hearing other's opinions about this issue:

GAO Report on U.S./Mexico Social Security Agreement Due Soon

http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/101968.asp.

To get back to the original post -- this URL takes you to an "error" page that doesn't explain anything about the proposed agreement.

Here's what I suspect that it's about, however. It probably relates to payment of social security benefits to Mexicans who work legally in the U.S. and pay into the social security system, and eventually go back to Mexico. I'm generally in favor of restricting immigration to much lower levels, but if immigrants pay their share of taxes, I think that they deserve to get their share of benefits.

My own family had a similar situation. My great-great grandfather immigrated to the U.S. from Germany. In the Civil War, he enlisted with an Illinois volunteer regiment as a "drum major." On a campaign in Tennessee, he developed a hernia that qualified him for a medical discharge. I guess his drum got too heavy for him.

Anyway, after the war he emigrated back to Germany, but was still eligible to receive his veteran's pension benefits. I have copies of his correspondence with the federal government regarding that.

 

[unclemick]

My april 03 ss statment talks about earnings before last year (02?) - so that means mine are only thru 2001 - ? that means the estimates are 2 yrs behind ? or am I reading wrong ? because I won't see 02 until my 04 statement comes next. Of course my earnings have been goose eggs for years now.

 

[proud_texan]

Ted, There is a difference. Immigrants are legal....we're talking about ILLEGAL aliens.  They are considered criminals and last I heard, criminals do not have rights.

Try this link:
http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/101801.asp

 

[Ted]

proud texan,

Thanks for the improved link.

I agree that illegal aliens should not receive social security benefits. However, I wouldn't think that people who employ illegals would pay social security taxes on them. Apparently some illegals use false social security I.D. numbers, but if they did that, it seems that it would be easy to detect if the Social Security Administration and the INS got together on it. Furthermore, how could someone eventually collect social security benefits if they had worked using a fake I.D.?

I think that the most ethical and effective way of reducing illegal immigration from Mexico and other poor countries is to have free trade and investment in them that creates productive employment in their own countries. For example, I just bought a Sony TV that was made in Mexico, and that's fine.

But this policy should be backed by vigorous enforcement at the borders, which has been woefully inadequate under both Republican and Democratic administrations and Congresses. People who oppose effective controls of immigration enforcement are a weird coalition of liberals who want to improve the lot of the world's poor by letting them immigrate to the U.S., and wealthy conservatives who want a cheap supply of unskilled labor, so that they don't have to mow their own lawns or clean their own houses. I think that "Dubya" falls into the latter category.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

You lost me with the "Dubya" comment. I am not a big
fan as he is not nearly conservative enough for my taste. However, he is so much better than anyone
who might run against him that I am quite supportive
in general.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Well, he didn't lose me with the 'Dubya' comment!

It seems what the current admin is striving for is a very upper class of very wealthy people. This can be made even more possible by importing very cheap illegal labor. Texas has been doing this for a while!

Our Grandparents that went through the depression of the 30's elected FDR 4 times because he saved the country from a state which we are currently headed. The labor unions of today are powerless, our jobs are being exported overseas. We are about 4 points of unemployment away from another FDR type of administration.
Joe six pack of today thinks he is a Republican, but with no Health care, no pension, no job he will be a Democrat soon.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Well, cut-throat, you may be right (about Joe Sixpack
being a Democrat) because almost everyone looks left leaning to me. I am not now, nor ever will be wealthy, but I do not begrudge the rich their
perks and privileges. I believe in "trickle down"
economics 100%. As far as labor unions losing their power, obviously I am not losing sleep over that.
What we need is a little more rugged individualism
and a little less running to the government/unions/etc
to solve all of our problems. A prediction:
Orwell's version of "Big Brother" did not arrive by 1984,
but he is still coming. Bet on it.

 

[Cut-Throat]

What we need is a little more rugged individualism
and a little less running to the government/unions/etc
to solve all of our problems.

There are always a few rugged individualists. I may be one also. I have never been in a Union and retired on my own. I won't have to depend on Social Security either.

What I talking about is the way the masses act and react. The masses are not saving for their retirement at all. When the party ends, the masses will expect someone to come to their rescue. This is how politics works in America - Have you ever heard the saying 'People vote their pocketbooks' - Pocketbooks change and people in America mostly live from paycheck to paycheck. Today, most have a negative net worth.

Business cycles have always been with us, and this downturn could be especially bad. The pendulum of politics will swing once again.

There were rugged individualists in the great depression and they cashed in on others misery.  But, they did not control the politics of the nation. The masses did and will.

My politics have nothing to do with depending on government for making it. I would like government to stay out of our lives in the social issues. Deciding whether Abortion is legal, choosing a religion for us. Deciding who can get married. I don't care, if three guys want to get married - Let them !

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Hey cutthroat! Re. "Government staying out of our lives", we found some common ground!!!! Alas, it's
not going to happen. Instead you will see more
and more intrusion and control over every aspect of your existence, and it matters little which major party
is in power. The pace may slow but the direction never does.