Super cheap laptop

wabmester, thanks, good to hear about the keyboard--other than the multiple supplier bit.
sounds like you got great deals on both Dells!

th, hope you don't take any of my comments as naysaying, and I'm glad you post exceptional deals when you see them. I may buy a $500 Dell laptop someday if I can't get the $1000 one I really want.
 
Nah I dont have THAT thin a skin.

I was just aware that a few folks had already bought one before Wab told them it was a piece of crap. Its hardly a piece of crap, it just isnt exactly the lexus of notebooks.

While its admirable to say "dont buy that honda, you're wasting your money if you dont buy a mercedes" from a quality perspective, a whole lotta people do just great with the honda...
 
Hondas are great. I'll pass on Dell since my mid-range 2001 Inspiron 4000 purchase. It's run extremely hot with intermittent freezes since I bought it. Their service wasn't much help. It's somewhat better now since I replaced the 1GHz CPU with a slower one (900MHz).
 
While its admirable to say "dont buy that honda, you're wasting your money if you dont buy a mercedes" from a quality perspective, a whole lotta people do just great with the honda...
Hondas are fine, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to highlight a sale for discontinued Yugos :)

Dell has stopped making any laptops with desktop-style chipsets. You can often pick up their new low-end lappies for $500-$600: the i1200 (replaces the 1000), i2200 (replaces the 1150), and i6000 (replaces the 5160 and 8600). Those are the Hondas.
 
Wabmester wrote:
Dell has stopped making any laptops with desktop-style chipsets. You can often pick up their new low-end lappies for $500-$600
Yea, I was looking that one over as well, comparing the two offers. With the newer model 1200, for $100 more, the differences I see is it comes with the wireless external card, a free color printer, and it seems to be a different processor. The 1000 had what they called a mobile Intel Celeron Processor, and the 1200, an Intel Celeron M Processor 350. Don't know the difference, but I recall seeing the 1200 offered for $529 thru their small business side. This was in my local paper on Tuesday, so don't know if it still exists.

I recall th stating he's bought his this way for a while, so may be worth the extra $30 to get what's offered with the 1200. I'm still thinking about it. One article I read said XP is slow with less than 512MB of RAM. Don't know if 256 is enough. :-/

Bookm
 
Hopefully someone more knowledgable can confirm this, but I believe the Celeron M is significantly cooler running than the Mobile Celeron. I think the former is based on the Pentium M (Centrino, if included with other stuff) chip which is relatively efficient, and the latter based on the desktop Celeron, which runs hotter.

I don't know if the Celeron M is as efficient as the Pentium M. It is lower end, but not sure if is just slower, or also less efficient.
 
Woohoo! Now we can really bash TH (former Intel marketeer). I am just dumbfounded by Intel's marketing. They have managed to confuse *everybody* with their Celeron and Centrino brands.

In any case, the "Mobile Intel Celeron" is a nasty chip. It has an itsy bitsy cache, and it's basically a neutered hot-running desktop Pentium 4.

By contrast, the Celeron-M is a very nice chip. The new ones have a full 1MB L2 cache, and they have the same core as the cool-running Pentium-M, but they have SpeedStep disabled. In short, they are much higher performance and much cooler running than the higher clocked "Mobile Celeron."
 
Bookm-

I would get 512.

Wabmeister-

What's speed step?

Thanks,
rapoole2000
 
SpeedStep is the Pentium-M feature that automatically reduces the clock speed when the CPU isn't under load. It improves battery life quite a bit since chips eat watts in proportion to their clock rate.

The newer Pentium-M's also have a 2MB L2 cache, but frankly the 1MB of the Celeron-M is enough.
 
I have had the several Dell laptops for the last 5 years compliments of my company. I have always been very pleased with them.
When I got laid off a couple of weeks ago, my former boss unofficially (guilt) allowed me to keep my Dell Lattitude C640 laptop. It is 2 years old with 1 more year of onsite maintenance.
I will miss this small perk as I have never bought a PC in my life. I hope to use this one for another year or 2. At least keeping it saved me $500 to $800.

MJ
 
(sigh)

Ok, we get it Wab, you hate the laptop. Its truly a piece of crap. Nobody should ever have to even look at one, let alone buy one. You can run along back to your sheep now. ;)

Anyhow, back to constructive information.

Celeron/Pentium "M"s are based on a different architecture than the pentium 4; more closely akin to the pentium III than anything. Its a smaller die, cooler running, more efficient per clock cycle. A very nice chip for mobile uses.

If you can find a pentium/celeron-M laptop for a comparable price, that would be a better buy. If you're going to sit for hours with the machine on your lap, an "M" processor based machine will feel a little cooler to your legs. By the way, a 50 cent cookie sheet under any laptop dissipates heat completely.

The whole celeron cache vs pentium cache vs pentium M cache is such a 1990's argument/concern. Excepting twitch games, high end video conversion and benchmarks, the average person probably cant tell the difference between a 1.5GHz Pentium M, a 2.4GHz mobile celeron and a 3GHz pentium 4. Unless you have unique processing needs (and you'll know who you are), almost any modern manufactured computer will do 98% of what you want to do just as well as any other.

As far as XP and memory goes, XP runs just fine in 256MB of ram. You will notice no difference between 256MB and 512MB when doing email, browsing, listening to music, ripping a cd, copying digital photos, etc. There are some particularly high memory demand applications; I wouldnt recommend running any of them on any laptop except for the very highest end units. Pretty much the ones already discussed...Doom3, virtualdub, etc.

I jumped my XP desktop from 256MB to 512 to 1024 and except for video encoding I've perceived no performance benefit.

As far as the "performance numbering"...well, lets see, MHz ratings dont tell the whole story when dealing with very different architectures, so all of the major chip manufacturers have come up with a numbering scheme to try to help consumers size up the difference. In simpler terms, instead of cubic inches they're trying to change that to horsepower...neither a perfect measure but more helpful. Unfortunately there are products out there with both the old MHz/GHz numbering scheme and the newer performance numbering scheme. That can be confusing. Over a short period of time the older un-numbered products will work their way out of the system.

In a way its kinda funny...if you took this laptop back to 2002 and offered it up for sale, people would swarm you to pay $2000-2500 for it. Its faster and more capable than almost anything made then. Today its a 'yugo' with a 'nasty chip' in it ::)
 
C'mon, TH, everybody here is about best bang for the buck. Of course, a cave man would love to have a Yugo, but Dell does offer better, faster, cooler lappies in the $500-600 range today than the 1000. Just let that thing die, will ya? :)

And I would never recommend running XP with 256MB. The OS will thrash (swap to disk often) with that little memory. You can upgrade to 512MB for $20-$50 (depending on RAM type), and it's probably the best performance bang for the buck upgrade you can do.

If your CPU is underpowered, you'd be amazed at the performance increase more RAM and more L2 cache will give you. You *will* notice it for everyday tasks such as web surfing since even those lowly apps have become more bloated and more CPU hungry over the years.
 
Show me the "better faster cooler" laptop in the $500-600 range...anywhere...without a bunch of mail in rebates, coupons, price matches and so forth.

I see a Dell 1200 for ~$550 after a $100 mail in rebate that appears to be identical to the 1000 except for a mobile celeron M 1.3GHz instead of a Mobile Celeron 2.2GHz processor.

Its debatable whether the average user would note any difference between the two in average use, although if you dont mind playing with mail in rebates the 1200 might be slightly quicken on a benchmark for slightly more money.

As far as the memory goes, I have XP/SP2 loaded with Norton Antivirus, antispyware, about 12 more oh-so-helpful tray icons, Outlook 2002 and Firefox with 15 tabs loaded. Committed RAM to XP is just shy of 100MB. Committed RAM to applications is about 90MB. 600MB is allocated to system cache (because XP doesnt know what else to do with it) and the rest is unused.

In other words, more than 256MB is not going to make much difference in this instance. You are certainly not going to see any difference with the naked eye.
 
Show me the "better faster cooler" laptop in the $500-600 range...anywhere...without a bunch of mail in rebates, coupons, price matches and so forth.
As you mentioned, the 1200 is better than the 1000, and about the same price.   Not only will it run marginally faster, but it will run cooler, and you will get better battery life, which is especially important since Dell gives you the old-fashioned NiMH batteries in the 1000 and 1200.

But I would skip both of those and get the i6000 for $649, no rebates.   The improved build quality and LiIon battery alone are worth the marginal extra cost.

And there still are *incredible* bargains in the outlet if you're quick with the mouse clicks.

There really is no reason to buy a discontinued 1000.   Most people won't even touch one in the outlet when they find one in the $300 range.

The other option is eBay.   Dell has flooded the market with outrageous deals for the past 2 months, so you can find an even more outrageous deal from people selling new systems on eBay.   Caveat Emptor, of course.

Edit: and the easiest way to tell if you have enough RAM is to check your Peak Commit Charge in Task Manager. If your peak commit ever exceeds your total physical memory, that means things are getting swapped out to disk. I just did a fresh boot, opened up IE, and my peak commit is at 280MB.

Bottom line: disk is *much* slower than RAM. If you ever swap to disk, you're really slowing things down. 512MB is a sweet spot for XP, since with that amount of RAM, you won't swap to disk unless you're running games or other demanding apps. 1GB RAM means that you'll almost never swap to disk, even with games and demanding apps.
 
So what you're saying is that 8 months ago when you were using...what was it? A 333MHz machine with 96MB of ram that you said was 'perfectly good' for everything you wanted to do except play "doom3", that you were mistaken then?

Or are you just...what is the nice term for it...'playing devils advocate'?

;)
 
So what you're saying is that 8 months ago when you were using...what was it?  A 333MHz machine with 96MB of ram that you said was 'perfectly good' for everything you wanted to do except play "doom3", that you were mistaken then?;)
Almost a grain of truth there :) My old 600MHz P3-based lappy running Win2K in 256MB is adequate for web browsing and light-weight apps.

That's because Win2K has a smaller footprint than XP. If you're running with 256MB RAM, I'd highly recommend Win2K. They are basically the same OS, but Win2K has less bloat/fluff.

And it's true that relatively few apps are CPU bound these days (pssst, don't tell Intel!). Games are driving the need for both faster CPUs and faster GPUs.

But, if you can get a faster, cooler, better, longer running system for about the same price as some doggy dog, why wouldn't you? All I'm saying is that you can get better bang for about the same buck.

As for me, I'll admit I got caught up in the GPU arms race. I've upgraded a few times in the last 6 months. But now I'm able to play pretty amazing games at 1920x1200 native resolution with really good frame rates on my laptop.

This is certainly nothing I *need* to do, but try playing Half Life 2 on a 9300 with go6800 and WUXGA. I dare you! I can never go back....
 
FYI ... the ($250) coupon expired .
 
Ok ... just bought the 1200 from the bussiness side with 512 RAM, external floppy (don't LAUGH), and extended warranty, shipped for $680.91 (after $100 mail-in rebate).

Is the wireless connection SAFE to be paying bills from??

(TH, thanx for the lead)
 
Or are you just...what is the nice term for it...'playing devils advocate'?
WAB/TH--The "exchange" between the two of you has been great--perhaps announce the next round in advance and sell tickets?
Any rate, i learned lot from your exchanges and glad to see the good humor in the process. (now I have to decide if the value of what I learn will last past next week m:) )
Nwsteve
 
I'm running XP pro/sp2 with 1GB -- it's a pig.
 
wabmester said:
I bought a high-end 9300 for myself (WUXGA, nvidia 6800) for around $800, and a lower-end 9300 for my wife (WXGA+, X300) for $550.

Were those prices after using a coupon code?

My girlfriend's PC died & she needs a laptop sooner than I. Checked the outlet, and prices are currently about twice that ($989 for cheapest 9300; most expesive is $1689 for WUXGA with X300) :(

She also cares about the screen--tho doesn't need 17"WUXGA like me, she'd like higher res than XGA.
 
The outlet prices and promotions are pretty random, but they have a good sale about once a month. The better sales tend to be towards the end of their fiscal quarter.
 
Thanks.

There's another coupon tomorrow morning, $600 off $1500 inspirons.

She'll probably get a $924 9300 1.6PentiumM 17"WUXGA X300 256Meg, or maybe spend another $50 to double memory. (another 256 of 533mhz.)

Basically the same deal I looked at a month or so ago, but I was going to pay $975 and get a better video card. (She games even less than me.) I don't recall how much RAM was in that deal.

Other options for her is a 15" for $500 with desktop chip (she's concerned about heat, me about fan noise) or $625ish? for 15" CeleronM, but she says the XGA screen is too blocky. 9300 will have bigger and much higher res screen, may run a tiny bit cooler? than CeleronM, and more future proof.

Here's the coupon code: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?&catid=18&threadid=475065
 
Bad math: if prices don't change, the deal is $1024, not $924.

$100 more than a month ago for same (or maybe better) system. :(
 
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