Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up.......

Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

What is the consensus, try to replicate this forum, all messages, and the same structure in new software, or create a new one, with no messages, a new structure, and let them run side by side a few weeks and then freeze the old one for archives?
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

What is the consensus, try to replicate this forum, all messages, and the same structure in new software, or create a new one, with no messages, a new structure, and let them run side by side a few weeks and then freeze the old one for archives?

I vote to try to keep the same structure,if possible.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Create a new one.

Grumpy
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I think the consensus is that work sucks and money is good, but after that we tend to diverge rapidly. :D

phpBB has been the default in my mind so far because it is free, open-source and apparently the most popular board software around now.

However, there are some things I like about using YaBB over phpBB, and the core problem here is post/file management, not feature or usage complaints.

For non techies, the summary of the rest of the post is that we may be able to solve the glitches and improve the speed without dramatically changing the look and feel of e-r.org forums.

In looking around I learned that YaBB SE is a PHP/MySQL-based board ported from the Perl-based YaBB. That group became Simple Machines and changed the name of YaBB SE to SMF. The license is not as open as phpBB, but it's at least as free as YaBB Gold and has an active community.

Since it's PHP-based and not CGI/Perl based the URLs will still change, but it uses the database for posts for reliability and speed and looks and acts very much like this board now. In fact we might be able to make it look almost identical.

Also it appears that converting is not as big a problem for other admins as it is to convert to phpBB.

A YaBB SE forum is at http://www.yabbse.org/community/index.php . An SMF forum is at http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php . I'm pretty sure the top and left sides are addons and won't be in the base software. I'm also guessing there will be a theme/template to make it look much more like e-r.org forums.

I have a YaBB 1 Gold SP1.1 forum set up at (test board removed) . (My DSL is spotty so this may go up and down.) I'll try installing SMF and converting. I may also try installing phpBB and converting.

EDIT: The SMF Demo Forum is a less modified (or unmodified?) version of SMF: http://support.simplemachines.org/demo/index.php

EDIT 2: Somebody made a YaBB Gold theme for SMF here, but I'll have to register on the board to look at it. I'm currently getting SMF running and am trying to clear out MySQL cobwebs from my brain.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board link.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I defer to the techies, but BMJs examples look pretty and look easy to use. :)

Don't like our faqs section much, it is too much a muddle of old faqs and miscellaneous questions.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

BMG, you the man! I'm am not good enough to lead this charge, but if y'all need me to do something/research something, I'll be glad to.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

There have been a few calls for features like 'ignore' and polls in the past. I'd like polls. I think theres some yabb addons for that, but I dont know if they're for yabb or se.

About the only bbs s/w I see on any of the places I haunt are yabb, phpbb and vbulletin. vbulletin is pretty good, but its a lot more work to administer...but it will take tens of thousands of users and a gazillion messages.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Polls are in SMF (not a mod), but I don't know about "ignore" yet. Also, I saw some huge YaBB SE and SMF boards that were snappy to read.

I finally remembered my MySQL root password, so I should have SMF up and running soon. (on my machine, for testing) Unless something breaks here at work.

After we determine if data migration is possible then I guess the questions are:
  • Do we want to migrate data (depends on testing)
  • Do we want the board software to behave like it does now or to behave like NFB and raddr-pages (they use phpBB)
  • Do we want to rearrange the categories/boards (this question is independent of the other two)
  • Do we really want to change anything at all?
I say "Do we...". It's Dory36's board of course, but he seems to be very open to community input.

EDIT: My SMF test forum is up at (test board removed) . Next I'll see about migrating data and changing the theme.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed link to test board
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Polls are in SMF (not a mod), but I don't know about "ignore" yet. Also, I saw some huge YaBB SE and SMF boards that were snappy to read.

I finally remembered my MySQL root password, so I should have SMF up and running soon. (on my machine, for testing) Unless something breaks here at work.

After we determine if data migration is possible then I guess the questions are:
  • Do we want to migrate data (depends on testing)
  • Do we want the board software to behave like it does now or to behave like NFB and raddr-pages (they use phpBB)
  • Do we want to rearrange the categories/boards (this question is independent of the other two)
  • Do we really want to change anything at all?
I say "Do we...". It's Dory36's board of course, but he seems to be very open to community input.

EDIT: My SMF test forum is up at (test board removed) . Next I'll see about migrating data and changing the theme.


Just my two bits, but migrating data is yes, keep look/feel the same/similar, maybe elminate/consolidate categories, but mostly keep things the same. I've posted on several boards, this style seems the most intuitive.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board link from quoted post -BMJ
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I'd like to see a board that is easier to read. Is there a board that could display only the unread messages or at least gray out the read messages?

It would be nice to migrate data. I would hate to see everyone repeat themselves all over again.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Well, that was easy. The data migrated fine, mostly. Some of the advanced markup features behave a little differently, but it's very minor so far.

Compare the following links. The first is the same software as this board, and the second is one of the new choices with the data from the first migrated. The second one can probably be made to look more like e-r.org, but I can't get the YaBB theme yet.

(YaBB link removed)
(SMF link removed)

Both boards allow instant registration and guest posting, so play if you wish, but it will all be deleted sooner or later.

Next I'll see about phpBB.

EDIT: phpBB is now up at (phpBB link removed) but as of this edit no migration has been attempted yet, and I will probably twiddle around with the appearnace.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board links.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Thanks very much for your efforts Jim. I don't have much to offer on the technical side, but have on occasion wished for an ignore option. Also, how about an option for the 20 most recent posts? Or for another page with the next ten most recent?


Best,
rapoole2000
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I migrated to the phpBB version. As expected, some things were lost in translation--mainly some smileys, the tables didn't quite go right, and some of the advanced markup is lost. Nothing devestating as far as content. The user names and data transferred, but I couldn't get the passwords to transfer on the first try.

SMF takes the migration well, and phpBB offers more features, I think.

e-r.org mockup w/test posts & users
SMF w/migrated data - behaves like this forum
phpBB w/migrated data - behaves like NFB or raddr-pages

EDIT: (Test boards removed from my test server. This forum migrated to SMF on April 30, 2005)

I'll look more at features later, but I think SMF has a feature where you can look at the X most recent posts, or maybe it's set in the admin panel.

By the way, both of the database-backed forums are noticeably faster on my machine. If you click around some you'll see for yourself. This is partly due to the way the languages are loaded and mostly due to how they store the messages. This slow machine of mine amplifies the effect.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board links. This forum migrated to SMF on April 30, 2005
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I think you can tell which one of us is still working...he takes on new projects without blinking ;)

Good work Jim...you may have saved us from small bbs hell...
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Some random observations and some feature observations based on earlier posts:

Both of my tested options have polls, but neither has the ignore user feature. I can't find ignore mods for either so far.

I expect either to handle large volumes of posts easily, and both are more responsive than the current software. (No more watching each message fill in one by one.)

I notice they each have a different meaning for "new messages". More on this later. But both have a "new" button that takes you straight to the first new message in a thread.

If Dory36 moves to a Linux host like he says, user names will become case sensitive so I have to log in as "BigMoneyJim" and not "bigmoneyjim". (Passwords are already case sensitive.) This goes for either software.

Both boards have the following quirk: I registered users in the original test board with spaces, but the board put underlines in them: "User 1" became "User_1", but in the original I could log in using a space. In both new boards I have to log in using the underline: "User_1".

Avatars will probably have to be reassigned after moving to the new board.

Board comparison:

YaBB 1 Gold SP 1.1, the current software for this board. My mockup is here (test board deleted Sept 30 2005).
  • We're already using it, so everyone knows it
  • No migration necessary
  • Doesn't have polls
  • Becoming glitchy and slow as post count increases and user list grows
  • See above comments for how both following boards improve on this one
SMF is a rebuilt and improved version of this software. My test board with migrated data is here (test board deleted Sept 30 2005).
  • "New" posts are any that the user hasn't read, like this board.
  • Takes migrated data well
  • Familiar look and behavior
  • Has an available module to list the last X new posts, but defined by site not user
  • Tech note: appears to work only with MySQL
  • Link to feature list
phpBB is what nofeeboards and raddr-pages use. My test board with migrated data is here (test board deleted Sept 30 2005).
  • "New" messages are posts that have been posted since user's last visit. So if you don't read everything and come back later you could lose track of what you haven't read.
  • Doesn't handle the migrated data as well, including the need to reset passwords on my attempt so far
  • Apparently the most popular board software today
  • Has a button to list all new posts since last visit
  • Unfortunately, if you spend a long time reading through new posts your visit may time out and "new" posts are only the ones in the past 15 or so minutes
  • Tech note: can use one of several database backends (including MySQL which seems to be the popular choice)
  • Link to feature list

Tech note: Both SMF and phpBB are PHP-based.

Random note: both boards can be under whatever URL path you want: early-retirement.org/forum, early-retirement.org/community, early-retirement.org/kayaks, early-retirement.org/rabbits/with/pancake/on/its/head, etc..

vBulletin costs money, so I didn't check it out. I'm not aware of other "biggie" board software that is similar to the format here.

I like the SMF one for several reasons. The "new" post thing is one of the biggies to me.

EDIT: Edited a few times between posting and :52 past the hour .

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed links to test boards. This forum was migrated to SMF on April 30, 2005.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I've seen an ignore feature for phpbb. Of course, its not that much of a big thing for me anymore as I've only wanted to ignore one person in my entire on-line life and said dimwit is no longer among us.

I hadnt noticed the problem with new posts with raddrs board and nofeeboards, but I didnt use either very much.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

This is looking good. I agree that the SMF looks easiest and best for all of us.

If we change the structure to new headings, I assume we'll want to keep a read-only copy of this forum available to everyone. If we keep the current structure, then I assume we will populate the new software with the current content and keep going.

BMJ, which seems most feasible? Which would minimize downtime? (I sent you a PM with access info to a new server account where we can set it up for production, and I will move a snapshot of the current forum files over the next hour or so.)
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

How about a FOR SALE/SWAP section? You know an RV for that old boat?
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

For those following this thread -- BMJ successfully moved all the messages, passwords, and avatars to a new server using the new software, and it is MUCH faster than this software.

We'll make a switch soon -- just need to figure out when the least disrupting time will be to be "off the air" for up to half a day. I'm imagining th going through withdrawal...
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

For those following this thread -- BMJ successfully moved all the messages, passwords, and avatars to a new server using the new software, and it is MUCH faster than this software.

We'll make a switch soon -- just need to figure out when the least disrupting time will be to be "off the air" for up to half a day.  I'm imagining th going through withdrawal...

Big Money Jim is the Man! 8)
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

-- just need to figure out when the least disrupting time will be to be "off the air" for up to half a day. I'm imagining th going through withdrawal...
th? What about JG...that much deprivation might turn him into a (dare I say it) liberal. ::)

REW
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Thank you, thank you. 8)

The 'hard' parts went very smoothly.

At first only linked avatars (like on photobucket) worked, but then I was able to copy the builtin avatars from here so everyone's avatars will be intact. That's the important stuff. And there are new builtin avatars available, but I'll let those be a surprise.

PMs (or IMs, whatever they're called) transferred fine, but the "outbox" is cleared so you won't have a copy of your sent PMs on the new board.

And what I said about case sensitive usernames isn't true after all. I logged in as "bigmoneyjim" (case mismatched) just fine.

After a bit of testing and twiddling I decided to set up a copy of this board on the new server alongside the new forum. I didn't really expect a problem doing so, but so far it's not working! That may take away the option of leaving the old board running on the new server, but I haven't given up yet--I'm just taking a break to get my mind on something else for a while.

As far as cutting over my first plan in my mind is this (if we're moving the data):
  • Make this site read-only and put up notice
  • Copy the board to the new server
  • Re-migrate data so new board is up to date
  • Quick tests and checks
  • Point early-retirement.org at the new server
Actually we might make the name change first because it usually takes a while to happen. And based on what's decided about the old board we'll either leave a read-only copy at the new server or have a link to the new URL.

If all goes well the above actions should take less than an hour unless the upload speed for the board data is slow. The long wait will be the name changing over. And of course there are always unforseen problems. Realisticly the board will probably be read-only and/or inoperative for up to half a day.

Whether or not we move the data to the new board it could be nice to have the old board in place as read-only because there are links to messages in the messages and on other sites that would quit working otherwise. Alternatively I had an idea about a small script that would cross-reference the link to the correct post on the new board software; I think it's possible but I haven't looked into it yet.

It would be possible to leave the old board running as read only on a different server, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense because the links still break.

If the consensus is to start anew the cutover could go something like this:
  • Make this site read-only and put up notice
  • Copy user data to new board (assuming new users since last migration)
  • Re-migrate
  • Delete all messages and boards from the new server
  • Create new boards
  • Point early-retirement.org to the new server
The read-only copy would probably be set up on the new server, too, depending on what's decided. This option might actually take a little longer because I'll either have to fool the converter into not remigrating the messages or delete the messages afterward. Not much longer, though. Still given the name change time probably up to a half a day.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

If we want to migrate data and rearrange things it may be possible to hide old boards in the main index instead of deleting them.

I'll look into it and report later.

If we're interested in having the old data around at all--and I think we are--it's so much faster and nicer to have it on the new board.
 
Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

BMG, you rock, you deserve an honorary title for this! :)

I agree it would be faster and nicer to have the old data on the new board. I for one have not finished reading all the old threads! ;)
 
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