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brewer12345 09-01-2005 06:35 PM

Horrifying
 
I don't know what the hell is wrong with FEMA, but it really seems like little or nothing is being done to get the poor unfortunates in NOLA out. People are dying on the street of dehydration, ferchrissakes! The national guard and the police seem more interested in driving around in armored vehicles than actually doing anything to get the survivors out. How hard could it be to commandeer a bunch of helicopters within 12 hours of the storm impact and drop supplies off and lift people out? Is this some kind of sick urban renewal program? The clown allegedly in charge in the White House is doing the hurricane version of reading "My Pet Goat" except that it is going on for days.

Unvelievable. I guess everyone knows that those too poor to get out before the hurricane struck probably weren't Republicans.

Marshac 09-01-2005 06:55 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Agreed, I was getting really angry while watching CNN during lunch today. And this news about snipers now? WTF? Get some frickin helicopter gunships in there and unload the gat guns on those damn snipers! Seriously, even airdropping MREs and water would go a LONG way to help people out until the situation gets under control. The images I saw on TV did not look like they should be coming out of the USA.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...apm10208301856

Note the date that was taken... way to take charge of the situation!

laurence 09-01-2005 06:59 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
This has been a total disaster, and better come as a wake up call. For all the talk about homeland security, and how much we've done to prepare for another disaster/terrorist strike, the fact they can't even get more than a couple hundred national guard to the outskirts of town is pathetic. It's my understanding the only government help seen on the streets is local (police, fireman, doctors etc.). I'm having real difficulty in understanding what people see in W. at this point. >:(

Marshac 09-01-2005 07:02 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
"In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze."

Remember that political capital that Bush liked to talk about earlier this year? I think that account is overdrawn now.

REWahoo 09-01-2005 07:08 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshac
Note the date that was taken... way to take charge of the situation!

With the commonly held opinion by W's non-supporters that he is a dufus, why would you want him anywhere near the gulf coast right now? ;)

REW

laurence 09-01-2005 07:10 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Brett Hume on Republican News Network (otherwise known as Fox News) spent a long time last night painting anyone who critisized the President over this in a bad light, at the time I thought, "who is saying what?" But now I see the political machine is trying to hit the news cycle first, so that any exposure of grevious mistakes leading up to this looks like partisan politics. Craven, disgusting. I'm done, I'm re-registering as independent. This is the last straw.

wildcat 09-01-2005 07:28 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
I hate to be Mr. Critical but the news was out days in advance about a cat 5 hurricane headed for Nawlins yet nothing was ready to go the day after ???

maddythebeagle 09-01-2005 07:40 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20050902/en_music_eo/17283

The found Fats :D, but the area he was in was littered with dead bodies :(

JPatrick 09-01-2005 07:43 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
This thing has now gone all political, so it is best to watch ,but not listen.. Of course the next phase will be the Hollywood* types moving in for their take.
Oh yes, can you guess the next disaster movie??
This ordeal deserves a serious investigation.* From what I am seeing, I'm thinking maybe this operation went to hell early cause there never was any local leadership at the early stages.* I think maybe the ship was adrift without a rudder when FEMA moved in. With no established command it makes it tough to get established when you are invited guests from the outside.
BTW, FEMA and NOLA just did a drill on this same senario about a year ago.
Hate to be one of many Monday morning quarterbacks, but it sure feels like the locals lost control which led to future chaos.* I watch a lot of TV cause I sit at the desk pushing stocks all day and I'd have to say I really never saw a LA official step up and take charge.* We shall see.
It is interesting to check out craigslist for NOLA.* Lots of missing, lots of interesting offers of assistance.

I think about 75K coming to Texas. Mostly Houston, SA, and Dallas.* I believe they will have internet access so maybe we will hear from unclemick.

haha 09-01-2005 07:58 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshac
Agreed, I was getting really angry while watching CNN during lunch today. And this news about snipers now? WTF? Get some frickin helicopter gunships in there and unload the gat guns on those damn snipers!

Jesse Jackson and the Reverand Al would surely approve of that.

Ha

Brat 09-01-2005 08:02 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Hollywood types, Jackson and his ilk, other yata yattas, I could give a hoot.

The bottom line is executive management and resources. *The current team hasn't executed.

If my dear departed Father (COE Engineer) predicted this 20 years ago, this risk was well known for years why weren't resources pre-positioned?

I don't care if you are R or D, this is a management issue. *The current administration can't claim that they didn't have time to properly staff and evaluate the risk. *This is a screw-up of major proportions that was predictable as to place and the weather service gave fair warning. *

What do you think would have happened if it were a WMD terrorist attack at an unpredictable place and time?

Praying for UncleMick

Marshac 09-01-2005 08:46 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brat
I don't care if you are R or D, this is a management issue. *The current administration can't claim that they didn't have time to properly staff and evaluate the risk. *This is a screw-up of major proportions that was predictable as to place and the weather service gave fair warning. *

Shoot, even national geographic knew about the dangers

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/...geographic.com


Caroline 09-01-2005 08:51 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
I posted a question yesterday, I think, about what this all meant and what lessons could learn about staying with one's home and assets vs getting the hell out of Dodge if something like this happened to us. *

I now see the biggest lesson of all -- don't be poor.

JPatrick points out that "this operation went to hell early..." *I'd say that is exactly right -- about 20 YEARS early. *I mean, I can remember a very interesting and entertaining PBS show about hurricanes -- a BIG part of it described New Orleans' dilemma in very clear detail -- there were computer simulations of the levees, what it would be like if they were to break, etc. *

Nobody can say they didn't know this could happen. *So... where were the busses and the national guard and the airlifts BEFORE this thing hit? *Why are we reading in the newspapers about people piling their families into their rust buckets and driving until they run out of gas... and not having a dollar in their pockets to buy any more because this hit the day before payday? *Why weren't these people in Houston four DAYS ago?

OK... sorry for rant... *I'm just really shocked to see little old white-haired ladies sweltering in the heat and tiny children running around in the "sewage soup" waiting for someone to help them. *The morning newspaper featured an 85-year-old man pausing to rest -- up to his knees in water.

This turns my stomach. *

The only tiny consolation I see in this is Lawrence becoming an independent. *Another few years of the same administration and he'll be solidly over here in the liberal camp. *I'll keep the light burning for you, Lawrence.

caroline


Brat 09-01-2005 08:54 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
This isn't a liberal or conservitive issue, it is a management issue.

Our current CEO has a MBA from an Ivy League University.* It should be subject to recall, even if he isn't!

JPatrick 09-01-2005 08:55 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Now this is weird- - -
I'm on a mailing list for jobs requiring high security clearances.. I've lost interest long ago, but I stay on the list so I can pass the info on.
So anyway, while I'm reading all the posts about how screwed up the management was on this disaster- - -an email comes in for a job with the following description; I deleted the agency name.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------S an scientific research and development firm serving the national security community, is seeking a mid to senior level emergency planner at its Arlington, Virginia headquarters. This individual will develop emergency planning and management plans, policies, and procedures; and will provide expert advice and recommendations on all aspects of emergency planning and management at both the tactical and strategic levels. They will also be called upon to develop and assist with emergency planning training, education, exercises and drills.



Requirements for the position include a minimum of five years experience in emergency preparedness, emergency management, disaster management or related fields. U.S. citizenship and secret security clearance desirable. A relevant bachelors degree and a thorough knowledge of the operational aspects of emergency communications preferred.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe someone is expecting heads to roll?? :-\




REWahoo 09-01-2005 09:00 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline
I now see the biggest lesson of all -- don't be poor.

No arguement here. Isn't that why most of us are reading and posting on this board?

REW

nuisance 09-01-2005 09:17 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo!
With the commonly held opinion by W's non-supporters that he is a dufus, why would you want him anywhere near the gulf coast right now? ;)

I say get him out there. When he sees with his own eyes how miserable people are, perhaps he gets to thinking about those choppers etc that are always the background to his speeches. A chinook can carry 20000 lbs, so why aren't they using even just one to ferry water and food to the people who are stuck? And his speech about how we should all donate cash pisses me off too. We're spending $80b in Iraq each year, but we can't afford $1b for an emergency at home? Being just a little creative with that awesome army of ours could go a really long way. Do I need to go to the streets to protest in favor of spending this time?

Tim

maddythebeagle 09-01-2005 09:17 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

If my dear departed Father (COE Engineer) predicted this 20 years ago, this risk was well known for years why weren't resources pre-positioned?
Yes, I remember a story one of the news mags. a few years ago on NOLA and I think the risks were well known. My experience with FEMA (from a few tornadoes in our area) is that they just give people checks and sit on the phone. The one FEMA rep. that I spoke with was really clueless. There really should be a local command and control. All I hear is the NOLA mayor. That is not the person that should be handling this. You need a military style hierarchy to get things done.

TromboneAl 09-01-2005 09:20 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
I'm not clear on the physical layout of things. *Is it currently possible to drive a normal car to the area of New Orleans where most of the people are, or are the roads totally blocked?

In other disasters around the world, you often see a long river of refugees walking away from the disaster area. * I haven't seen that on the news.

Marshac 09-01-2005 09:22 PM

Re: Horrifying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl
In other disasters around the world, you often see a long river of refugees walking away from the disaster area. * I haven't seen that on the news.

At least from what I have seen of new orleans, you pretty much need a boat to get around. :-\


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