Doing Nothing in ER

[Nords]

Satisfy yourself. That's what's important.
There's an attitude that gets expressed a lot on this board that any kind of work is repugnant and that those who work after "retirement" are not really retired. It's not about money either. Many people have "hobbies" that generate income. What constitutes work? Is a volunteer activity work? What if the same activity could be done for pay? If you spend 20 hours as an election board member for $100, is that work -- or community service? If you spend several days counceling a troubled teen, is that work? What if the teen is a relative or neighbor? etc. . . Is it work if you teach? What if you are teaching surfing, fishing or golfing to someone?
I don't think a strict definition of "retired" or of what constitutes a "job" matters. Find a path that satisfies you. That path will be different for all of us. If some aspects of your career was satisfying then you will want to replace that in retirement. If that can be accomplished by performing a task for money, then do it. The money won't matter, but the satisfaction will.

I agree that people have to please themselves, but the first thing they need to consider is why they're doing an activity that involves a paycheck.

I think that many retirees work because they need the money, but they lie about it delude themselves by claiming that it's for personal satisfaction. I'm not sure that they're fooling anyone but themselves.

I think that many retirees work because they're retreating into a safe, well-regulated, externally-structured environment where they no longer have to be responsible for their own entertainment.

I think that many retirees work because they're bored and have no idea what do to with themselves. Like a Monty Python routine, they should be beaten over the head with paper copies of Ernie Zelinski's "Get A Life Tree".

Perhaps the key questions for any new paid activity should be:
- Would you still do it if you had to give the money to charity?
- Are you in a rut? How does this differ from the life you led when you were working for a living?
- Are you running away from boredom or an over-present spouse or some other problem that you don't want to tackle?

Writing and reviewing are more "work" for less money, but I find these activities rewarding and I can do them on my schedule.

Here's a question based on my ignorance, inexperience, and genuine curiosity-- how does your editor feel about that "my schedule" comment?

 

[Retire Soon]

Thanks for the story Cut Throat, I think there is a lot of truth to it. I've been retired now for over 6 months and don't know how, "I ever had time to work." In the back of my mind I keep reminding myself of what I read in one of the "how to retire..." books (I don't remember which one) that emphasized when one retires, you should let the first year go by without any major commitments. That is, just go with the flow for the first 12 months. Don't look for a part-time job, don't volunteer, don't look for new hobbies, but rather just appreciate your new found freedom. I've been doing exactly that and have enjoyed every minute of it. I figure that after the author's suggested year, I'll know what I really want to do with the rest of my life.

As far as "doing nothing in ER" is concerned, I've worked with many people who really didn't have a life. They had absolutely no life outside of work. Some would stay at the school until 9 o'clock in the evening and then even go back to their classrooms on Saturday and Sunday. I think these were very lonely people, who would not know what to do if they did not have a career. Their life was limited solely to teaching and they found satisfaction in little else. Many employed people may appear to be very challenged and busy, but at the same time are still regressing both mentally and intellectually, because they have no life outside of work. They would be totally lost without the structure and security of a job.

 

[flipstress]

Satisfy yourself. That's what's important.

Wise words, sgeeeee. Are you a guru of some sort?

Life is living at a huge Chinese buffet of infinite choices.

But a career is only being able to eat the same thing there, day after day, like it or not. You can LOOK at all the choices... then sigh and tuck into the same old, same old.

Retirement is being set free to taste ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that appeals to you (as long as you can afford it of course).

This doesn't mean you can't snack on that old career plate. Just means you don't HAVE to anymore.

Tragic is the retiree that simply stops eating.

I love your metaphors, Joss. (I also love Chinese buffets.) BTW, welcome to the boards!

.

I agree that people have to please themselves, but the first thing they need to consider is why they're doing an activity that involves a paycheck...
Perhaps the key questions for any new paid activity should be:
- Would you still do it if you had to give the money to charity?
- Are you in a rut? How does this differ from the life you led when you were working for a living?
- Are you running away from boredom or an over-present spouse or some other problem that you don't want to tackle?

sgeeeee was asking the definition of work--this is work, Nords, and could be painful, too. But in retirement, one has more time for self-examination and any resulting redirection that one desires.

 

[sgeeeee]

I agree that people have to please themselves, but the first thing they need to consider is why they're doing an activity that involves a paycheck.

People don't need to do anything to meet your or my expectations. I don't care why folks choose to perform an activity for money. That choice is theirs to make. If they are happy, then they've made a good choice for them. Whether they can express an exact reason for that choice and their happiness isn't really important. I don't think most people can explain the reasons why their choices please them to the satisfaction of others. You could probably write 100 pages about why you enjoy surfing and I doubt that it would appeal to me at all. CT could write that much about fishing (although I doubt he would because he would rather be fishing) and yet I have no interest. They are good choices for you, though.

I think that many retirees work because they need the money, but they lie about it delude themselves by claiming that it's for personal satisfaction. I'm not sure that they're fooling anyone but themselves.

I think that many retirees work because they're retreating into a safe, well-regulated, externally-structured environment where they no longer have to be responsible for their own entertainment.

I think that many retirees work because they're bored and have no idea what do to with themselves. Like a Monty Python routine, they should be beaten over the head with paper copies of Ernie Zelinski's "Get A Life Tree".

Wow. You apparently know more about the devious nature of some of our posters than I do. I don't know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they choose to work any more than I know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they don't. I suspect human nature implies we have some of both. I'm not sure why that matters to anyone but them.

Perhaps the key questions for any new paid activity should be:
- Would you still do it if you had to give the money to charity?
- Are you in a rut? How does this differ from the life you led when you were working for a living?
- Are you running away from boredom or an over-present spouse or some other problem that you don't want to tackle?

I'm not really interested in applying a test to other's motives. I think you could ask the last two questions about any of our poster's hobbies or passions.

Here's a question based on my ignorance, inexperience, and genuine curiosity-- how does your editor feel about that "my schedule" comment?

I have a good relationship with several publishers. Since I have a track record of providing them content and understand the required role of an author/editor, they have accepted "my schedule". I am seldom out of email contact with my publishers (maybe 5 or 6 weeks a year) and I let them know when I will be out of electronic communication. I give them honest status reports if I'm developing a book or article and let them know that any projections of completed tasks is based on "nothing better to do" coming along.

Most authors are notorious for delayed submissions and unresponsiveness. This drives publishers crazy. They can't effectively schedule production and marketing and when authors get behind, they tend to ignore correspondance rather than admit they haven't been working on the project. The publishers I work with tell me that they are very satisfied with "my schedule" and are happy to work with me.

By the way, there is no significant money to be made in publishing the kind of specialized stuff that I have authored/edited. A great selling technical expert's book sells several thousand copies over a period of 2 or 3 years. Royalties run 10% to 15% (depending on the details of the contract). You do the math. Most writers (even non-technical) would have trouble justifying their writing based on income. For every best-selling author, there must be thousands who are struggling to make it work.

 

[Texas Proud]

My mother, who is 86 'retired' back in 1982 I believe....

But, she did volunteer work for awhile, but they lost their worker at various times and she did the same thing for pay off and on for a few years...

She did water aerobics for seniors... but got her 'card' or whatever and started to teach a class.. again, got paid... but about 3 years ago was 'laid off' as they closed down the pool she worked.... Now, she has to drive farther to another club, but still does her water aerobics three times a week...

So, you can get paid for doing something you would be doing anyhow... is that "work"

 

[Nords]

People don't need to do anything to meet your or my expectations.

Sorry, didn't mean to poke a nerve or wirebrush any sensitive appendages... IMO you don't need to feel that way!

Would it make you feel better if I expressed my opinion as "should" instead of "need"?

Wow. You apparently know more about the devious nature of some of our posters than I do. I don't know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they choose to work any more than I know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they don't. I suspect human nature implies we have some of both. I'm not sure why that matters to anyone but them.

As a matter of fact I do, although I was referring to people in general and not any of our posters in particular. Hey, people "should" examine their motives for their own edification, and it's not any of our business. But I'm skeptical when I read about the "unfulfilled" retirees profiled in financial & business magazines.

Thanks for answering my curiosity about editors & publishers.

 

[LeatherneckPA]

My 2 cents on this one,,,,,

I happen to ride two different (really different) motorcycles. One is a full dresser Harley and the other is a Suzuki on/off road screamer. Each group that I ride with is always asking a guy like me wound up with the other crowd. My answer is "It matters not what you ride, only that you ride."

In ER speak, "It matters not if others think you are retired, only that you think you are retired."

 

[sgeeeee]

Wise words, sgeeeee. Are you a guru of some sort?
. . .

Shhhhhhh. I've morphed twice since those days.

I have been posting on this board for a long time under various names. I've seen a lot of posters come and go. It must be a sign that I am learning impaired that I haven't graduated myself.

 

[sgeeeee]

. . . Thanks for answering my curiosity about editors & publishers.

You're welcome.

 

[lifeisgood]

When I tell people that I ER'ed, a fair number of them say something like, "Man, I could never be happy doing nothing.".

This always stumps me. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt as to their intelligence. When they say such a dumb thing, I have to re-consider where to put them.

Maybe there are people who really wouldn't do anything, but I have a hard time conceiving it. There is so much interesting stuff to do! Especially when you are young and healthy enough to get around.

For instance, I interviewed for a high school tennis coach position today.

 

[wabmester]

Retirement isn't for everybody.

My FIL is 70 and waaay FI. His kids and wife are riding him to retire so they can spend more time traveling. He owns a restaurant with his partner, and he has a buyout offer on the table.

The restaurant gives him a vibrant social life. As the owner, it gives him cachet in his community. It keeps him busy and engaged. It's a low stress gig. So, he sees retirement as a losing proposition. I suggested that he might hire a manager so that he has more ownership over his schedule, and forget about retirement.

 

[donheff]

Retirement isn't for everybody.

My FIL is 70 and waaay FI. His kids and wife are riding him to retire so they can spend more time traveling. He owns a restaurant with his partner, and he has a buyout offer on the table.

The restaurant gives him a vibrant social life. As the owner, it gives him cachet in his community. It keeps him busy and engaged. It's a low stress gig. So, he sees retirement as a losing proposition. I suggested that he might hire a manager so that he has more ownership over his schedule, and forget about retirement.

Probably a good suggestion. Popular restaurant owners often go down with the ship -- they love the life. A couple of weeks back I saw Duke Ziebert, a famous DC restaurant personality and previous owner of the restaurant with his name, serving as a maitre dei at a McCormick and Schmidt's down the street from his former place. He just wasn't happy unles he was greeting customers by name.

 

[dumpster56]

When I tell people that I ER'ed, a fair number of them say something like, "Man, I could never be happy doing nothing.".

This always stumps me. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt as to their intelligence. When they say such a dumb thing, I have to re-consider where to put them.

Maybe there are people who really wouldn't do anything, but I have a hard time conceiving it. There is so much interesting stuff to do! Especially when you are young and healthy enough to get around.

For instance, I interviewed for a high school tennis coach position today.

Yes but some here as stated earlier in the thread say we should do nothing for a period of time. I packed it in only a week ago and will sign to be a varsity track coach for the spring today! Nothing wild a couple of hours a day for 2and 1/2 months. Something that I LOVE!!

Sub teaching on my terms, and yes quite frankly having an additional 1400 a month during my transition is well helpful, since my first pension check and my buyout on sick time may not be paid until march.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

did somebody mention doing nothing? because i'm very good at that. i can sit for hours in an empty, whitewashed room with no windows and be thoroughly entertained. i'm not sure if maybe the meaning of the word has changed but i constantly hear people tell me how bored they are. i don't believe i've ever known a moment's boredom in my life.

if i have any regret about doing nothing in er it is that i have no one to do nothing with. so i will force myself to do something. i might even have to meet someone new who enjoys doing nothing as much as i do. i can see it already: i am going to have to bore myself with travel and adventure.

www.idler.co.uk/forum

 

[kcowan]

There are four spheres of involvement in which we all engage:
Family
Community
Work
Profession

Many people lack a strong balance across the four spheres and rely on work for their identity. The comments about restauranteurs is particularly relevant because the successful ones I know ignore the first two spheres and focus exclusively on the third one.

A good example of a great transition is Professor Emeritus - simply a shift from sphere 3 to sphere 4. No more pay except for the pension but still listed in the faculty and with ongoing privileges.

 

[John Tuttle]

A good example of a great transition is Professor Emeritus - simply a shift from sphere 3 to sphere 4. No more pay except for the pension but still listed in the faculty and with ongoing privileges.

That's me, except I don't get a pension (TIAA-CREF). I tell people the only job better than being a professor is being a retired professor. Still using the weight room and Library. I can still referee papers, engage in research and go to talks and seminars.

 

[donheff]

That's me, except I don't get a pension (TIAA-CREF). I tell people the only job better than being a professor is being a retired professor. Still using the weight room and Library. I can still referee papers, engage in research and go to talks and seminars.

So what is your field? Twenty two posts is too low for an academic. We will start calling on you when relevant topics come up - how is that for a turn-about?

 

[John Tuttle]

So what is your field? Twenty two posts is too low for an academic. We will start calling on you when relevant topics come up - how is that for a turn-about?

Mathematician.

I've been reading the board for a long time. Mathmaticians as a group tend to be terse. If this had been a department email you would have gotten a one word reply. I have lots of opinions and I enjoy a good argument, just not over the Internet.

 

[Khan]

did somebody mention doing nothing? because i'm very good at that. i can sit for hours in an empty, whitewashed room with no windows and be thoroughly entertained. i'm not sure if maybe the meaning of the word has changed but i constantly hear people tell me how bored they are. i don't believe i've ever known a moment's boredom in my life.

www.idler.co.uk/forum

I too can do nothing for hours; a habit acquired in my youth.

 

[Khan]

There are four spheres of involvement in which we all engage:
Family
Community
Work
Profession

I don't engage in any (except for online).

 

[ladelfina]

yep.

Thanks LGFNB, for confirming what I knew was possible:

i don't believe i've ever known a moment's boredom in my life.

I "do" far less than many people. But I never seem to be 'bored' the way others are 'bored' in the same circumstances. For better or worse, I have the aptitude to be carried away by the writing on a cereal box, if that's all that's on offer.

I'm always the one asking "why?","what does that mean?" to the irritation of all concerned. How can they NOT care? How can they NOT want to know? My DH gets frustrated at times, I can tell.

I second Khan in that there are pretty limited aspects of Family/Community/Work/Profession that I adhere to.. these aspects form probably a lesser part of my existance than they do for others. Work and Profession I have left behind me; Family is for the most part overseas, yet of course I devote what time and energy I can; Community would be an adopted aggregation of people in the midst of which I am only very slowly learning to 'speak' the (unspoken, true) language and make contacts.

Since just doing a load of laundry here can occupy 1/2 the day, I remain doing "nothing", but I'm not 'unhappy' (just slightly frustrated). 

 

[donheff]

i don't believe i've ever known a moment's boredom in my life.

My 8th grade history teacher was one of those Reader's Digest characters you never forget. She used to kick the trash can across the room to get attention. One of her indelible pronouncements when an unfortunate classmate said something was boring was to bellow out, "the ahhdeeuhh of being baawwd in the 20th century." I have been afraid to get bored ever since -- works for ER.

 

[audreyh1]

When I tell people that I ER'ed, a fair number of them say something like, "Man, I could never be happy doing nothing.".

This always stumps me. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt as to their intelligence. When they say such a dumb thing, I have to re-consider where to put them.

Maybe there are people who really wouldn't do anything, but I have a hard time conceiving it. There is so much interesting stuff to do! Especially when you are young and healthy enough to get around.

Yes, I find this to be an incredible lack of imagination. I can only assume the questioner has no idea of what they would do with more leisure time, and I think in a lot of cases this is true! Unfortunately work can sap so much of one's spirit, that a person spends the tiny amount of personal time available in maintenance activities and just collapsing from sheer exhaustion. Many people give up their personal interests after a many decades and forget what it's like to really have free time.

Of course with our "constant traveler" lifestyle of being a fulltime RVer, no one assumes that we spend our days "doing nothing". It's pretty obvious that this is a busy, adventurous lifestyle, and one very difficult to enjoy unless you have a lot of time and few constraints (i.e. are retired).

So, we don't get that question any more!

Audrey