"Lost vegas" video on economy

Oldbabe said:
The segment on foreclosures is just awful. People with leases getting 20 minutes notice to get out. I can't believe this is happening in our country.
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It isn't a good video - they say LV was "Pro Growth" but don't say what that means.

Also, the people don't get only 20 minutes - they know they are behind in payments and are given all the legal notices.
 
The musicians being evicted had paid their rent. The landlord was foreclosed on and had been charging rent all along. The tenants were served an immediate eviction which meant they had no notice at all. They had to gather their belongings and pile them in the street. IMHO, this is theft.
 
Oldbabe said:
The musicians being evicted had paid their rent. The landlord was foreclosed on and had been charging rent all along. The tenants were served an immediate eviction which meant they had no notice at all. They had to gather their belongings and pile them in the street. IMHO, this is theft.
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Not theft. The musicians have a cause of action against the landlord for services not rendered and maybe other issues. The landlord might have had a legal obligation to notify the tenants.

====
Repocessions from cars to homes have happened in the past and will happen in the future. In how many other countries in the world would the people who are having things repoed would be even had the opportunity to get the things they are having repoed?
 
It's Dickensian. What horrible scenes.

Ha
 
As a tenant, this underscores how difficult it can be to choose a rental unit. If I were to try to move, say within a few blocks, I would be wondering which rules each option falls under, as the rules vary according to number of units, age of building, and even age and physical fitness of prospective tenant, etc. That’s my current neighborhood. What goes on in Vegas in this video does not happen where I live; AFAIK, the worst case scenario is that the sheriff might move all of the tenant’s possessions out onto the street after lots of warning; picketers from the Tenant Union would be there.

Thanks, Oldbabe, this is very relevant to retirement discussions as so many people are advised to rent before buying.
 
dex said:
Not theft. The musicians have a cause of action against the landlord for services not rendered and maybe other issues. The landlord might have had a legal obligation to notify the tenants.
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This being Vegas care to place a bet? I bet if the renters took their landlord to court (you know the same guy who is letting his place be foreclosed on), and obtained a judgment in court, they would not ultimately collect a dime.
 
clifp said:
This being Vegas care to place a bet? I bet if the renters took their landlord to court (you know the same guy who is letting his place be foreclosed on), and obtained a judgment in court, they would not ultimately collect a dime.
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Who said they would collect? But if the landlord had a legal obligation to notify the tenants about the foreclosure and didn't; the tenants might be placed higher on the collection list or have a criminal action.
 
dex said:
Who said they would collect? But if the landlord had a legal obligation to notify the tenants about the foreclosure and didn't; the tenants might be placed higher on the collection list or have a criminal action.
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The landlord also had a legal obligation to pay his mortgage, so this isn't a guy who has a great respect for the law. The point being that the legal system screwed the tenants, big time and I think they have no recourse and are left with losing a month rent and deposit and having to find a place to live with all of their possessions on the street.

Dickensian as Ha Ha says.
 
clifp said:
The landlord also had a legal obligation to pay his mortgage, so this isn't a guy who has a great respect for the law. The point being that the legal system screwed the tenants, big time and I think they have no recourse and are left with losing a month rent and deposit and having to find a place to live with all of their possessions on the street.

Dickensian as Ha Ha says.
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Are you saying all those victims of low interest mortgages who now won't (can't) pay them are the same as the landlord. We should feel sorry and bail out the "interest rate" victims but demonize a landlord (who might also have been an "interest rate" victim).

Not Angie Dickinsian but Kafka - ian
 
dex said:
Are you saying all those victims of low interest mortgages who now won't (can't) pay them are the same as the landlord. We should feel sorry and bail out the "interest rate" victims but demonize a landlord (who might also have been an "interest rate" victim).

Not Angie Dickinsian but Kafka - ian
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Come on Dex.. I just spent a lot of time the last couple of days trashing NY Times Reporters Ed Andrews and his bogus victimization story on this and other forums. I've suggested that some mortgage "victims" should be prosecuted for perjury for lying on their loan applications and not get an opportunity to live in their McMansion in at tax payers expense.
I reluctantly support some mortgage bailout as the lesser of two evils, but in general have very little sympathy for the millions of American who lived beyond their means and played a large role in destroying our financial structure.

One of the reason I detest the victimization cultural is because cheapens being an actual victim. The renters are actual victims in my book. They did absolutely nothing wrong are hurt by other actions. Hey were are all hurt by the irresponsible behavior of lenders and borrowers, but I still have a roof over my head and my possessions aren't dumped in front of my house.

How would you characterize the rental family?
 
I have to agree Dex.... you are way off on this one...

If a person is keeping up on their part of a contract, then it should not be broken on an 'instant repo'.... I would say they should change the laws and give them a week or even a month (since they probably paid for it).... and they can change the law to not allow this if they wanted... but I guess they did not want to ....
 
clifp said:
Come on Dex..
How would you characterize the rental family?
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OK, I baited you with that one.
You are being constant with your reasoning. Individuals and the landlord facing foreclosure today might be no different - one borrowed to live in a space another to rent it out to others. So feel for one feel for the other. Or, pillage one pillage the other.

As to the renters - they are like any creditor in a bankruptcy. The reason why some "feel" for them more than a credit card company is that some identify with them more than a credit card company.

Legally, the tenants might have recourse for theft of services or fraud. So, they could be real victims - if the landlord legally should have given them notice of the foreclosure and didn't.

That anyone is shocked (the news has been doing stories about foreclosures) that this type of situation is occurring reminds me of the quote from Casablanca:

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
 
dex said:
Legally, the tenants might have recourse for theft of services or fraud. So, they could be real victims - if the landlord legally should have given them notice of the foreclosure and didn't.

That anyone is shocked (the news has been doing stories about foreclosures) that this type of situation is occurring reminds me of the quote from Casablanca:

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
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The fact that an immediate eviction in this situation is legal in Las Vegas is what is shocking to me. In this situation portrayed in the documentary the property had been foreclosed upon and is now owned by the bank. Perhaps this change in ownership is what allows for the immediate eviction. The bank could have notified the tenants and given them a few weeks but they chose not to. The operative phrase is "chose not to." There was no imperative to empty the place immediately.

Heartless and cruel is how it plays to me and as Ha characterized it "Dickensian." I would also add that this is one more incidence of the social Darwinism that is increasingly acceptable in our society.
 
The woman reporter in the video is Laura Ling, sister of Lisa Ling who used to be with The View, National Geographic Channel and later CNN.

Laura Ling was "detained" in North Korea along with another woman for illegal entry and espionage back in March, 2009. They go on trial in June.

Report: Journalists to be tried in N. Korea - CNN.com
 
Sue J said:
The woman reporter in the video is Laura Ling, sister of Lisa Ling who used to be with The View, National Geographic Channel and later CNN.

Laura Ling was "detained" in North Korea along with another woman for illegal entry and espionage back in March, 2009. They go on trial in June.

Report: Journalists to be tried in N. Korea - CNN.com
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Now that is worse than been immediately evicted in Las Vegas.
 
Oldbabe said:
The fact that an immediate eviction in this situation is legal in Las Vegas is what is shocking to me. In this situation portrayed in the documentary the property had been foreclosed upon and is now owned by the bank. Perhaps this change in ownership is what allows for the immediate eviction. The bank could have notified the tenants and given them a few weeks but they chose not to. The operative phrase is "chose not to." There was no imperative to empty the place immediately.

Heartless and cruel is how it plays to me and as Ha characterized it "Dickensian." I would also add that this is one more incidence of the social Darwinism that is increasingly acceptable in our society.
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This is what is surprising to me... that they were kicked out in a few minutes.... if they were the owners and had been noticed for months... not a problem with me... but being renters I think they should have some rights beyond that time frame....


There was a family renting a house that I was interested in buying.. it was about to be foreclosed when the guy filed for bankruptcy.... so they stopped paying rent... but the administrator did not want the house and 'released' it... they still were not paying rent.... and the bank did not foreclose... and I was wanting to buy it....

The last I have heard, they are still living there 1 1/2 years later and not paying rent... I do not think the bank has foreclosed and the house is in limbo....
 
Texas Proud said:
This is what is surprising to me... that they were kicked out in a few minutes.... if they were the owners and had been noticed for months... not a problem with me... but being renters I think they should have some rights beyond that time frame....
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Well, that's the thing. I'd like to think renters get a fair amount of time to vacate the premises assuming they have been current on the rent -- I'd say something like 30 days at minimum.

I suspect a lot of states have "fair housing" laws to this effect. And if that was the case here, then either (a) the owners of the property did not give the legal notice or (b) the tenants disregarded the notice and were caught by surprise even if they were notified as required.
 
ziggy29 said:
Well, that's the thing. I'd like to think renters get a fair amount of time to vacate the premises assuming they have been current on the rent -- I'd say something like 30 days at minimum.

I suspect a lot of states have "fair housing" laws to this effect. And if that was the case here, then either (a) the owners of the property did not give the legal notice or (b) the tenants disregarded the notice and were caught by surprise even if they were notified as required.
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I think one of the problems is that there is zero incentive for the "owner" to notify the tenant about the foreclosure. Since the legal situation is very gray, and it is likely the renter would stop paying the "owner" rent.

The states/courts really need to pass laws clarifying situations. I am somewhat surprised that banks have pushed for having renter send the money directly to them to once a foreclosure is initiated. The rents will be applied to "owners" loan and if the mortgage become current, they can start sending the rents to the owner again.
 
"Under the Helping Families Save Their Homes Act, tenants have the right to stay in their homes after foreclosure for 90 days or through the term of their lease. The bill also provides similar protections to housing voucher holders. The protections go into effect immediately and expire at the end of 2012.

In addition, California law provides that leases are extinguished by foreclosure, with limited exceptions. Many tenants enter into one year leases, only to find a few weeks or months later that the property is heading for foreclosure and that their leases will be extinguished. The new federal law provides that the lease survives the foreclosure, except that the lease can be prematurely terminated and the tenant given 90-day notice where a purchaser seeks to occupy the premises. "

Tenants Together*:*Obama Signs New Federal Law Protecting Renters after Foreclosure

This new law seems reasonable to me, although why it should expire after 2012 is a mystery.
 
Oldbabe said:
.....

In addition, California law provides that leases are extinguished by foreclosure, with limited exceptions. Many tenants enter into one year leases, only to find a few weeks or months later that the property is heading for foreclosure and that their leases will be extinguished. The new federal law provides that the lease survives the foreclosure, except that the lease can be prematurely terminated and the tenant given 90-day notice where a purchaser seeks to occupy the premises. "
....
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Ummm, local rules trump that. I live in a California foreclosed property, currently pay rent to the bank. My 1994 month-to-month lease stands intact and I stand ready to remind the bank and the new property manager of their responsibilities. The Tenant Union is heavily involved in this and ready to act under the assumption that the Swiss bank may need some education on the local rules. Essentially, the city authorizes the owner of my apt. building to be in the rental business, anyone who owns or acquires it would have to go through a lot of red tape to stop renting....

This is the reason, in my previous post here, I'm suggesting that prospective tenants really research rental rules for a particular unit before signing a lease.
 
CuppaJoe said:
Ummm, local rules trump that. I live in a California foreclosed property, currently pay rent to the bank. My 1994 month-to-month lease stands intact and I stand ready to remind the bank and the new property manager of their responsibilities. The Tenant Union is heavily involved in this and ready to act under the assumption that the Swiss bank may need some education on the local rules. Essentially, the city authorizes the owner of my apt. building to be in the rental business, anyone who owns or acquires it would have to go through a lot of red tape to stop renting....

This is the reason, in my previous post here, I'm suggesting that prospective tenants really research rental rules for a particular unit before signing a lease.
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This sounds excellent. I wonder, are there any strong pro-tenant laws, or rent controlled buildings, outside of California and New York City? Even a place of liberal politics like Seattle is pretty much hands off, tenant is on his own. At least I believe that is true.

Ha
 
haha said:
This sounds excellent. I wonder, are there any strong pro-tenant laws, or rent controlled buildings, outside of California and New York City? Even a place of liberal politics like Seattle is pretty much hands off, tenant is on his own. At least I believe that is true.

Ha
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Rent control in my area stems from one or two POed tenants dealing with one landlord who raised the rent too high once too often. Even now very few people make a very big difference in tenant activism. Lots of opportunities at the grass roots.

Are there enough tenants in Seattle to form a voting bloc?

Edit to add a link:

http://www.tenantsunion.org/
 
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