Global Debt Clock

[donheff]

The Economist has a Global debt comparator that shows the total and per capita debt for countries around the world. I was surprised that much of the European community has higher per capita debt than we do - some much higher. The comparator only forecasts through 2011 so it doesn't catch the long term impact of the current situation but I suspect Europe may be in a similar boat to ours. Not sure of the implications other than that we are not alone and there is a lot of debt out there. I wish the comparator went back 40 years or so.

 

[Gone4Good]

Not only does Europe (and Japan) have a higher debt burden then we do, their populations are growing more slowly and aging more quickly than ours - the result of more stringent immigration restrictions. These demographic trends make their debt burden all the more challenging.

 

[freebird5825]

I have to ask the obvious question ...if all of the developed countries have all this monstrous debt, who do they owe it to ? Their own citizens ? Each other?
Is this the classic circular debt situation...i.e. Country A owes $ to Country B, who owes $ to Country C and Country D, while Country D owes $ to Country A.

 

[retiredtuna1]

Total US Debt.

Let us take a look at debt from another angle - total US debt - personal, corporate, municipal, state, and federal ... just take a look at the Grandfather Economic report series found here: Grandfather Debt Summary Table Report by MWHodges

No wonder Pete Peterson started his foundation, found here at
Peter G. Peterson Foundation

Peterson's group lists total US debt at 56.4 trillion (3x US GDP) while Hodges puts it at 56.9. However, since they use different methodologies, they should meet to reconcile their figures.

 

[ziggy29]

There are many ways to look at the U.S. debt (and global debt, for that matter). It seems to me that one can draw almost any preconceived conclusions one desires by choosing how to report debt and whether to compare it to many other nations (particularly in Europe).

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm not convinced the dollar will collapse relative to the Euro or the yen is that the Eurozone and Japan have many of the same debt, deficit, entitlement and demographic problems facing the U.S. -- and worse per capita in some places and in some ways. It's possible at some point confidence in all fiat currencies will go down, and while the dollar might not fall relative to the Euro or the U.K. pound, they may all gradually lose purchasing power together.

 

[retiredtuna1]

Total debt

I don't quite entirely agree with you Ziggy. In the short run, the dollar will stay high compared to the Euro because of our deficit spending. But, as the Economist map shows, we are approximately at the same level as Europe. Western / Central Europe continue to remain mostly anti-immigration and they, like Japan, are aging at a much faster rate than we are. In the longer term - 10-20 - years out, the dollar will regain strength because other countries will be 'dying out' (possibly depopulating) sooner than we do.

Are there any Christians in this group? We should be doing a re-think in terms of how to do church / ministry outreach to us older folks - for that, um, er, Ultimate Retirement.

 

[ziggy29]

I don't quite entirely agree with you Ziggy. In the short run, the dollar will stay high compared to the Euro because of our deficit spending. But, as the Economist map shows, we are approximately at the same level as Europe. Western / Central Europe continue to remain mostly anti-immigration and they, like Japan, are aging at a much faster rate than we are. In the longer term - 10-20 - years out, the dollar will regain strength because other countries will be 'dying out' (possibly depopulating) sooner than we do.

Maybe I wasn't quite clear. I agree that the dollar may still rise against the Euro and the yen for a while as those places have currency problems that are, in many ways, worse than the dollar. And they never had the "reserve currency" status to fall back on.

But I still think all fiat currencies have the potential to fall relative to hard assets and natural resources over time -- just that the dollar may not fall as much against things like gold, real estate and oil as other currencies will.

No large democracy has done anything to convince me that any of their fiat currencies will hold up to hard assets in the decades to come.

 

[retiredtuna1]

You were clear, Ziggy. I just didn't read your entry a second time as I did just now. However, if all fiat currencies don't hold up against hard assets... then I think what you mean is that there will be massive (global) inflation. On the other hand, if all currencies deflate at the same time, they will maintain their parity with each other.