Knowing if one has what it takes to be an expat

[ItDontMeanAThing]

First off, I don't know what it takes to be an expat but almost three years into this adventure has given me some clues. Any of you expats have clues that applied to you?

Googling turned up many self assessment check lists. Most of them seemed too general to allow for self evaluation when I read them before making the decision to leave the US. I've been realizing and writing down specific situations where such general principles can be applied.

First one came about from a frequent comment by expats about traffic in the Phils. The most frequent words used to describe it were chaos and chaotic. I knew it wasn't chaos otherwise they accident rate would be an order of magnitude above what it was.

Here's the test one can take while on vacation someplace where the driving conventions* are different than in one's home country. Observe traffic from both the side of the road and on public transit. Deduce some rules. Observe again to confirm the rules. Ask yourself if you could live with this without voices constantly screaming in your head things like 'you're all insane', 'We're all going to die', 'why don't you idiots do it the right way', or the most insidiously harmful to life as an expat 'if they just did <fill in the blank> instead of <fill in the blank> everything would be so much better'.

* I wrote 'conventions' because it doesn't matter if the drivers are following the laws or following the local customs regardless of the law. Either one is a set of conventions.

 

[Nemo2]

As a temporary, 'employment expat', (7+ years in Saudi Arabia), I adopted the presumption that everyone else on the road was making a concerted effort to kill me, and undertook appropriate evasive maneuvers.

Although I've never played a video game I imagine that the experience was similar to being inside one.

 

[deserat]

As someone who has spent 20% of my life away from the US - I would also add that once you get accustomed to the expat location, going back to the US can be culture shock, too.....I got flipped off 4 times on the same short drive in northern CA when I came back - sigh. I have to remember to be a different aggressive/defensive drive when in the US.

 

[MichaelB]

If you go to a place in the world where they do things differently and say to yourself "hmm, that's interesting. lemme try that" you can live well as an expat. OTOH, when seeing some different, if you say to yourself, your spouse and your co-workers "these people have that all wrong" it's probably going to be a painful adjustment.

Another sign of a difficult expat lifestyle is food. If you are in a foreign city, see a KFC or McDonalds and think to yourself "hmmm, I now have a place to eat" that's not a good sigh. OTOH, if your first thought is "jeez, you can't get away from these places", then you have potential for expat success.

For me the acid test is the traffic police. If you can hold your own with them then you are a true expat.

 

[Nords]

I knew it wasn't chaos otherwise they accident rate would be an order of magnitude above what it was.

If this is an important issue in your lifestyle then I'm not sure it matters where you live...

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I can get along anywhere I can talk to people.

 

[W2R]

As a temporary, 'employment expat', (7+ years in Saudi Arabia), I adopted the presumption that everyone else on the road was making a concerted effort to kill me, and undertook appropriate evasive maneuvers.

Although I've never played a video game I imagine that the experience was similar to being inside one.

I'm glad you didn't go to Pakistan when you were considering it a while back, even though this "video game orientation" might have been a good adaptive maneuver there. NOT my cup of tea.

Another sign of a difficult expat lifestyle is food. If you are in a foreign city, see a KFC or McDonalds and think to yourself "hmmm, I now have a place to eat" that's not a good sigh. OTOH, if your first thought is "jeez, you can't get away from these places", then you have potential for expat success.

Exactly! Some people will spend thousands of dollars to travel somewhere and yet they bring their home with them through their attitudes.

As someone who has spent 20% of my life away from the US - I would also add that once you get accustomed to the expat location, going back to the US can be culture shock, too.....I got flipped off 4 times on the same short drive in northern CA when I came back - sigh. I have to remember to be a different aggressive/defensive drive when in the US.

The same is true within the U.S. If you move to rural southern/middle America and whine about not having a Trader Joe's, Ikea, or Costco nearby, you probably aren't a good candidate for living as an expat.

If you move to urban east/west coast areas and still expect people in oncoming cars to wave at you and stop to let you turn left in front of them (like they do in some parts of the South), then you probably aren't a good candidate for living as an expat.

If you move to Hawaii and still pronounce it "Ha-wie-yah", or to New Orleans and still pronounce it "New Orleeeeenz", then I give up. (Hint: If your pronunciation of "Orleans" has three syllables, or your pronunciation of "Hawaii" includes a marked glottal stop, you are probably on the right track).

 

[Nemo2]

I'm glad you didn't go to Pakistan

I was in Pakistan in 1963.....down through India, thence Sri Lanka, (then Ceylon...been there 3 times)..........last time I was in Sri Lanka, (1985), my late wife & I rented a car and drove pretty much all over.

At one point we encountered an Australian family who had hired a car & driver......the Aussie said "You've gotta be game, driving yourselves"....if the Sri Lankan driver hadn't been standing next to him I'd've said that I felt a lot safer with me driving than a local!

Which reminds me of arriving at work one morning in Riyadh to find a flattened Toyota Landcruiser in the parking lot........I asked the Irish guy who was in charge of the vehicles what happened........"Sure, and didn't your man try to use the roof as a brake" was his response.

Keep your sense of humor is rule one for expats.

 

[W2R]

Oops, sorry Nemo2! It was Ed The Gypsy, not you, who was considering Pakistan recently. That's what happens when I post while still half asleep

Amazing stories.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

The same is true within the U.S. If you move to rural southern/middle America and whine about not having a Trader Joe's, Ikea, or Costco nearby, you probably aren't a good candidate for living as an expat.

If the whining is brief, followed by exploring your new location to see what it offers instead of what it doesn't, I disagree. But if one can't let it go that they can't get good | decent | any <blank> where they live then you will hate being an expat. Or moving to a different region of the states.

If you move ... to New Orleans and still pronounce it "New Orleeeeenz", then I give up.

My mama was born in the Crescent City. She called it 'Nahhhlins'

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

If you go to a place in the world where they do things differently and say to yourself "hmm, that's interesting. lemme try that" you can live well as an expat. OTOH, when seeing some different, if you say to yourself, your spouse and your co-workers "these people have that all wrong" it's probably going to be a painful adjustment.

That's the sort of general advice I've seen for prospective expats. Not sure it works very well if people think of themselves as being adaptable and open minded. It's being adaptable and open minded that counts, especially when the new culture hits too many of one's hot buttons at the same time. It's one thing to stand in a line, notice the inefficiencies and let it go. It's another, for example, to watch drivers run over puppies in the road with same amount of concern that I have when I realize I'm about to step on an ant. Or to see it and then talk about it with a local who knows English, only to find he doesn't understand why you are bothered.

 

[MichaelB]

That's the sort of general advice I've seen for prospective expats. Not sure it works very well if people think of themselves as being adaptable and open minded. It's being adaptable and open minded that counts, especially when the new culture hits too many of one's hot buttons at the same time. It's one thing to stand in a line, notice the inefficiencies and let it go. It's another, for example, to watch drivers run over puppies in the road with same amount of concern that I have when I realize I'm about to step on an ant. Or to see it and then talk about it with a local who knows English, only to find he doesn't understand why you are bothered.

My post wasn't advice for prospective expats, it was just giving a short answer to this

Any of you expats have clues that applied to you?

I have known hundreds of expats and was one myself for over two decades. It's not just US folks moving abroad, either, as people relocating to the US often have difficulties as well. BTW, your puppy example is disturbing.

 

[kcowan]

Embracing the culture and considering "not like back home" to be a good thing are two attributes to success.

 

[Nemo2]

BTW, your puppy example is disturbing.

Having had to kill a kitten whose back half was deliberately squashed by a Saudi who ran over it, (again deliberately), such incidents may be disturbing, but they are by no means unheard of.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Nemo, you have my sympathies. I've been witness to callous behavior here in the States, but it is rare and unusual, unlike in many parts of the world where life is not necessarily precious.

I don't have what it takes; and I know it. But the one place that resonated really strongly with me and made me pause to consider it was Mongolia. I am sure that I would find much frustrating about the post-Soviet bureaucracy there as well as the temperature extremes, but the gentleness of the people was incredible.

I saw 6 cars lock up their brakes on a busy main street in Ulaan Baatar to let a stray dog cross the road. I saw a man so drunk that he was more off the horse than on it be carried carefully across a busy road by his trusty horse in the wake of the Nadaam celebrations, I saw two women dressed to the nines strolling around during Nadaam, followed a few paces back by their menfolk, dressed in military uniforms and cradling tiny infants in their arms. I also saw meat animals, including the sheep destined for our dinner one night, being gently and without inducing terror, killed with such skill that she didn't make a sound.

There were many other moments that gave me a glimpse into the basic kindness of the Mongolian people, but these were at least a few examples.

 

[MichaelB]

This reminds me of a story

A Brazilian friend was assigned to the Venezuelan sub as an executive – a “clean up the mess” role. He was a friendly guy, super-salesman type, thought he could talk his way out of any situation, and loved to improvise. As a child he lived a few years in Colombia and spoke Spanish with a passable accent – but it was quite rusty.

On the first day he assembled the management team to introduce himself and give a speech – a pep talk. His intended points were

You people are smart and capable
This company and the country need people like you
I’m here to help you succeed

However, his Spanish vocabulary was weak and he didn’t do any prep work for the speech. Like I said – he loved to improvise. So his first day on the job, he told the management team in his best "Portuñol" (spanish / portuguese mix)

You all have testicles or you wouldn’t have been hired
You all can be castrated
Your castrated parts have market value
I will work hard to make that happen

The day ended well because Venezuelans have a great sense of humor and he was the first to laugh at himself.

Mixing cultures often creates embarrassing and unusual situations. One important quality is being able to laugh at oneself and not take things too seriously.

 

[Sarah in SC]

That is fantastic, Michael! I can just imagine the look on their faces!

I was having a party a few years ago and wanted to order fresh taco shells from our favorite Mexican restaurant. I thought (and still have no idea why) I need to ask the owner about ordering them in Spanish. So I painstakingly crafted and delivered this message to him, to his and everyone's eternal amusement: "Please may I order 100 corn skeletons?"

 

[Alan]

Great story Michael. As an expat living in the USA I could go on for hours about the language gaff's that I have made.

 

[W2R]

My mama was born in the Crescent City. She called it 'Nahhhlins'

There isn't just one way to say it, although all seem to agree that "New Orleeeenz" isn't it. After living here for almost 16 years, my own observations are in agreement with the following assessment from a lifelong New Orleans native:

First off, <new or-LEENS> is generally a no-no. It's like putting a big, red neon sign on your head that says, "I'm not from around here."

Here are the major standard local pronunciations of the City's name: <new OR-l@ns>, <new AW-l@ns>, <new OR-lee-'@ns> <new AH-lee-@ns>, <nyoo AH-lee-'@ns>. The fabled "N'Awlins", pronounced <NAW-l@ns>, is used by some natives for amusement, and by some non-natives who think they're being hip, but actually I've come across very few locals who actually pronounce the name of the City in this way.

How to pronounce New Orleans? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

Most of my friends and neighbors who are lifelong natives pronounce it <nyoo AH-lee-'@ns>, as do I. It's kind of halfway between AW and AH I guess. And also, it has to have a particular rhythm/cadence. But really, there are many pronunciations of it and they vary from neighborhood to neighborhood and by economic class as well. Just don't say "New Orleeeenz" (<new or-LEENS>) and you should be fine.

And as Nords can tell you, the pronunciation "Haw-wie-yah" is equally disdained in the Islands. Part of acclimating to a new culture is learning pronunciations and words that may seem new or strange.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Ask yourself if you could live with this without voices constantly screaming in your head things like 'you're all insane', 'We're all going to die', 'why don't you idiots do it the right way', or the most insidiously harmful to life as an expat 'if they just did <fill in the blank> instead of <fill in the blank> everything would be so much better'.

If everyone else is driving like drunken lunatics then perhaps you should adopt that style.

Don't think of it as a challenge. Think of it as an opportunity.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

If everyone else is driving like drunken lunatics then perhaps you should adopt that style.

Don't think of it as a challenge. Think of it as an opportunity.

Bingo! You get it. I think living enjoyably in a new culture requires these steps: recognizing the differences, understanding when it's in one's best interest to adopt or adapt to the difference, treating it as an opportunity, being able to carry out the change.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

I'm seen generic advice on what it takes to be an expat about how country's civil and criminal legal codes and their implementation vary widely. That one needs to understand things taken for granted like presumption of innocence and the power of contracts are far from universal. Good advice, but what does it mean in practice? In some countries it means the following.

Ask yourself if you could live in a country where you had two options after being cheated* out of the home you purchased: 1) accept it, 2) pour money into a black hole of legal fees in a hopeless and endless quest. *By cheated I mean all means illegal, quasi-legal or with the force of law behind them. Don't focus on the word 'cheat'.

Ask yourself if you could live in a country where a security cam catches a foreigner being beat down bad enough to put him in a hospital for days, where the video clearly shows the perpetrators who are known to all the staff and foreigners who frequent the establishment and where the odds of the police doing anything about it are close to zero?

 

[haha]

Some people find "adventure" or young economically disadvantaged women to be sufficient reason to put up with stuff like this, as well as toxic air and all the other 3rd world nifties.

I think for me it would only be if I absolutely could not afford to continue to live in an advanced country.

Ha

 

[rescueme]

Some people find "adventure" or young economically disadvantaged women to be sufficient reason to put up with stuff like this, as well as toxic air and all the other 3rd world nifties.

I think for me it would only be if I absolutely could not afford to continue to live in an advanced country.

Ha

You and me (and DW) ...

I know that a lot of folks on this board plan on retiring to another country (and I do recognize that some have done so, succesfully), but I would say for most folks - especially for those that have not traveled outside North America (e.g. USA/Canada) don't recognize the differences in culture.

As for me/DW (who have traveled much - world wide, along with my employment by a foreign country that required me to spend a lot of time outside the U.S.), I would say that we're happy to remain here.

As for others? Whatever "floats their boat"...

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I am not committed to expatism. It is my Plan B. Having traveled a little and having researched the world for years now, there is no place like home, for sure. However, there are a few places that might hold up--for a while. And all I need is 'a while'.