Class warfare and FIRE?

[ATC Guy]

Just a small correction from my POV. I'm proud to be a socialist. People who are socialists have no problem with other people describing me that way too.

A socialist ER is an oxymoron. In a socialist society people would not and could not retire early. Amassing those types of assets would require a free market system that allows you to save and invest and earn as you choose. In a true socialist society, anything extra you earn could not be saved and instead would be given back for the greater good.

I wonder where the Chinese or North Korean FIRE website is? I think too many people these days think they like socialism without actually understanding how it would affect them and society. There is a reason it never caught on.

 

[nun]

While I agree with the live in dignity part, if the parent's are supported by the state then why do the children deserve the proceeds from the sale of the property? Whatever they get is coming out of our collective pockets. In a situation like that the whatever is left of the liquid assets that were retained (the 10k in your example) would go to the children plus any proceeds from the sale of the property in excess of the amount paid by Medicaid for the parent's LTC.

The critical point is what does Medicare buy you? LTC before or after the house is sold. The issue I see is that LTC can be expensive and result in middle class families not being able to pass on anything to their heirs. The passing on of wealth is important to social mobility and helps reduce wealth disparities. So I'd like to see Medicare being used to pay for LTC and also protecting some family assets

 

[Beryl]

A socialist ER is an oxymoron. In a socialist society people would not and could not retire early.

Not true.

 

[nun]

A socialist ER is an oxymoron. In a socialist society people would not and could not retire early. Amassing those types of assets would require a free market system that allows you to save and invest and earn as you choose. In a true socialist society, anything extra you earn could not be saved and instead would be given back for the greater good.

I wonder where the Chinese or North Korean FIRE website is? I think too many people these days think they like socialism without actually understanding how it would affect them and society. There is a reason it never caught on.

Yep that's me, I'm an oxymoron.

A completely socialist society is like Plato's cave....interesting to think about, but an impractical way to live. I espouse a mixed economy with both a free market and public sector ownership. Progressive taxation for the greater good to provide certain services like public transportation and healthcare is good public policy, that's why I choose to live in MA. Obviously YMMV

I hope that all those that disagree with socialism will on principle send back their SS checks and refuse Medicare...

 

[eridanus]

In a true socialist society, anything extra you earn could not be saved and instead would be given back for the greater good.

In a true free market system, there are no regulations and monopolies would crush the competition and sell lead painted toys to the same kids who made the lead painted toys. Wait, they'd sell them to kids in another country, across a large ocean, who could afford the toys.

I think too many people these days think they like socialism without actually understanding how it would affect them and society.

There is no one "socialist" economic model. It does not necessarily mean that "anything extra you earn could not be saved" and everything is shared, without any private property. Socialists do not all agree on how society is structured. For example, syndicalist socialists would oppose state ownership of the means of production, which is the traditional bogeyman of the talk show pundits.

 

[pb4uski]

The critical point is what does Medicare buy you? LTC before or after the house is sold. The issue I see is that LTC can be expensive and result in middle class families not being able to pass on anything to their heirs. The passing on of wealth is important to social mobility and helps reduce wealth disparities. So I'd like to see Medicare being used to pay for LTC and also protecting some family assets

Medicare buys you medical coverage, not LTC. Medicare does pay for nursing home care for a period of time while rehabilitating from a hospitalization but has a stiff deductible.

LTC is provided for the indigent under Medicaid. And you are right, LTC is expensive and as a result many middle class families will see their assets paid to the nursing home for their care and nothing will be passed on to the heirs. This is happening right now to my great aunt - she is in a nursing home and her assets are being depleted to pay for her care. If she persists (she's 94 and in ill health) there will come a time within the next few years where her assets will be gone and Medicaid will step in an begin picking up the bill and here heirs will get next to nothing.

Medicare is already on shaky financial ground as it is. If you want to add some sort of LTC coverage to Medicare you would have to increase rates dramatically for those that are working. I don't see that happening.

 

[nun]

LTC is provided for the indigent under Medicaid. And you are right, LTC is expensive and as a result many middle class families will see their assets paid to the nursing home for their care and nothing will be passed on to the heirs.

Yep I meant Medicaid, my bad!

 

[nun]

There is no one "socialist" economic model. It does not necessarily mean that "anything extra you earn could not be saved" and everything is shared, without any private property. Socialists do not all agree on how society is structured. For example, syndicalist socialists would oppose state ownership of the means of production, which is the traditional bogeyman of the talk show pundits.

+1. I like the practicality and democracy inherent in syndicationalism and will buy from local cooperatives when I can. I'm drawn to libertarian socialism, hence the Anarchy avatar, as I don't like authority, but I reject it because it's like all radical libertarianism, left or right, that deals with the individual without regard for the groups to which all humans belong. If I had to choose I'd describe my self as Methodist by upbringing, Buddhist by inclination and a social democrat with libertarian tendencies. Try getting that out at cocktail parties, it's a real conversation killer.

 

[Beryl]

I hope that all those that disagree with socialism will on principle send back their SS checks and refuse Medicare...

Any takers? It would be good for the rest of us.

 

[W2R]

Thanks, all! The moderator team would like to send our holiday best. As for this thread, it has run its course so for now Porky Pig Cartoon Ending "That's All Folks!" - YouTube